What does New York lack despite its size that other Acela metros have? (place, America)
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It sucks yeah but I don't think it negates in any way its stature as one of the world's great cities.
One of the world’s great cities - no dispute there. That is a distinction that NYC and a large handful of global cities share.
When it comes to big bold claims like greatest city in the world, which has been said about NYC several times here, then little details like the one I’ve pointed out start to matter more.
Ive lived all pver the East Coast, so here is my take.
Things that you wouldn’t have as great access to living IN New York City
1. Access to Day Trips. Point blank. Boston, DC, Hartford, NJ, it is so easy to go for a hike. Or go to beach. Go somewhere cool. NYC has zconey Island, but going upstate or somewhere different on a whim is really hard. If you are in NYC, you are IN New York City.
2. Obvious one here, but Land. You can land and a form of quaintness living in other cities over NY. If you value any source of space, NYC may not provide that. Sure parts of Queens and Staten Island do.
3. Quaintness. In other parts of the Northeast you have the ability to go from city to quaintness relatively fast. Not so much in NYC.
4. This one is opinion but skyscrapers. I am a huge believer that skyscrapers take away from a city. I feel a lot of NYC is blah and other cities give me that original feel I don’t mind in swaths of NY.
5. Seafood. It’s definitely lacking.
6. Scenery. Obvious one. You can look at the Palisades and the Atlantic Ocean but a higher % of “could be” natural beauty is blocked off. Like the FDR around Manhattan.
7. Nightlife streets or districts. NYC is laid put like a fun bar/pub/club on a block… then the next block… then the next block. Whereas other cities usually have a defined agglomeration of clubs/bars and restaurants that make bar hopping easier.
8. Train to the airport. Directly. AirTrain doesnt count.
Commuter rail access to the beach is a regular NYC thing. The Jersey Shore and Long Island are both a trivial day trip. There are express buses to Hunter every day from NYC. There are also express buses to New Jersey for night skiing. I was at Killington for 30+ years. Tons of New Yorkers ski there every weekend. I used to have a ski girlfriend who lived in Manhattan. She car pooled up with three other people.
A huge number of trucks leave the fish houses in New Bedford every day with New York Ciry business names on them. It’s a 3 1/2 hour drive. New Bedford is the largest fishing port in the country. NYC has plenty of fresh seafood. Jean Georges in Trump Tower serves a seared scallop dish as one of their signature dishes. New Bedford scallops. Just as fresh as the ones I buy in New Bedford.
One of the huge advantages of NYC is that you can hop on a nonstop flight to pretty much anywhere in the world. It makes travel really easy. It also has tons of competitive city pairs so airfare tends to be lower than anywhere else.
Having large parts of Brooklyn's east river waterfront being accessible is a pretty recent affair (LIC as well), and it is nice. I think the problem with the Manhattan waterfront is that it gets cut off by the highways with the West Side Highway being a lot more permeable than FDR and Harlem River Drive. Philadelphia's not too great either with the highway cutting it off from the Delaware River.
Unfortunately, after WW2 much of these waters around our major cities were polluted and this was right when the new highways were being built. So most people probably did not care.
But I am amazed what is going on around Brooklyn landing, the Brooklyn Bridge and the Fulton Ferry area. And upriver are two new state parks in Williamsburgh and Long Island City.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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New York City lacks a seamless one seat no transfer subway ride across the tri-state area thru each state like the Metro in Washington DC.
Now much of this can be chalked up to pure geography and gargantuan size of the NYC area and surrounding states. The NYC Subway is obviously older and only operates in the city since it's inception. But the fact that the NYC subway doesn't directly go across the Hudson (although PATH has transfers), still stands out especially not connecting Midtown to NJ near the Lincoln Tunnel, or North of it. There's obviously Metro North to CT and numerous forms of commuter rail, but in the DC area you technically can have a one seat ride and cross from Eastern suburbs in Maryland through Downtown Washington passing all the major tourist destinations, and continue out deep through the Northern Va suburbs 30 miles from Downtown without getting off the train.
And regarding the airports, no direct subway station to at least LaGuardia from Midtown is an absolute travesty for the caliber of city it is.
Last edited by the resident09; 08-04-2023 at 09:12 PM..
New York City lacks a seamless one seat no transfer subway ride across the tri-state area thru each state like the Metro in Washington DC.
Now much of this can be chalked up to pure geography and gargantuan size of the NYC area and surrounding states. The NYC Subway is obviously older and only operates in the city since it's inception. But the fact that the NYC subway doesn't directly go across the Hudson (although PATH has transfers), still stands out especially not connecting Midtown to NJ near the Lincoln Tunnel, or North of it. There's obviously Metro North to CT and numerous forms of commuter rail, but in the DC area you technically can have a one seat ride and cross from Eastern suburbs in Maryland through Downtown Washington passing all the major tourist destinations, and continue out deep through the Northern Va suburbs 30 miles from Downtown without getting off the train.
And regarding the airports, no direct subway station to at least LaGuardia from Midtown is an absolute travesty for the caliber of city it is.
Weirdly you missed DC here. And beyond that commuter rail service to/from all three airports (National, Dulles and BWI).
VRE and MARC aren't through-running. They terminate at Union Station.
Perhaps you're referring to Metro. That functions as an interesting hybrid system, and I argue it already effectively built regional rail though not via its commuter rail system but it's generally though of as a metro system rather than a commuter rail system. I do remember reading that improved rail crossings over the Potomac are planned and MARC is looking to extend its services over it to Northern Virginia in which case DC would also have through-running commuter rail and the fun thing would be that it may be the Penn Line which would mean that would be through-running two city cores.
Commuter rail access to the beach is a regular NYC thing. The Jersey Shore and Long Island are both a trivial day trip. There are express buses to Hunter every day from NYC. There are also express buses to New Jersey for night skiing. I was at Killington for 30+ years. Tons of New Yorkers ski there every weekend. I used to have a ski girlfriend who lived in Manhattan. She car pooled up with three other people.
A huge number of trucks leave the fish houses in New Bedford every day with New York Ciry business names on them. It’s a 3 1/2 hour drive. New Bedford is the largest fishing port in the country. NYC has plenty of fresh seafood. Jean Georges in Trump Tower serves a seared scallop dish as one of their signature dishes. New Bedford scallops. Just as fresh as the ones I buy in New Bedford.
One of the huge advantages of NYC is that you can hop on a nonstop flight to pretty much anywhere in the world. It makes travel really easy. It also has tons of competitive city pairs so airfare tends to be lower than anywhere else.
1. Yep. But like i said, better in other metropolian areas.
2. Those seafood options sound great. But thats sound just for people making over 250,000. Doesnt sound very equitable to the average new yorker who doesnt make nearly as much to afford that, at Trump Tower. So you pretty much proved my point lol
3. Travel is easy, but again like other posters have said, its a bit if a hastle to get to the actual airport. No direct trains. Significantly essier in Philly, Boston and DC. Miles easier.
Agree with 1 & 3. When I lived in Philly, I could hop in a car and be at Longwood Gardens, New Hope, KoP, my parents house, or any other suburb/cute little town in an hour or less (I'm sure Boston and DC are similar). There is more time and planning involved to do anything outside of core NYC. One can catch a train from Penn Station to beaches on LI or North Jersey, but it's still a schlep.
But I view #7 as a positive for New York. There are always bars, clubs, music venues, piano lounges, late night cocktail clubs, etc. in every neighborhood. Philly, DC, Boston have neighborhoods with great amenities, but there are also others that lack good nightlife options.
And Hells Kitchen, Chelsea and West Village (whether you like them or not) have a ton of bars/clubs within a stones throw of each other.
But compact districts are great too, like the Gayborhood in Philly. The small streets and alleys add to the more intimate pedestrian experience vs. 9th Avenue in NYC.
Agreed here. Philly, imo, has the best beaches in their MSA and Boston has the best train access close to the CBD. Cant really best Philly though, their beaches in NJ and DE are top notch. Another thing Philly has others dont, is terminal-side Train access to the Center City. PHL Airport is the best. Dont want to sound like a Philly booster, but it really HAS it. Eventually I want to move down to Philly area because it has everything I would need.
And yeah, that can be a positive or negative. I personally like nightlife streets (ie, that one in Madrid i forgot the name of, Temple Bar, Landsdowne St, Grove St). But i know others like the vibe of hells kitchen which is totally preferential.
I am unfamiliar with Philly but i even noticed some agglomerations of places to go to. Maybe in smaller cities its a thing? Due to NYC sheer size i think it operates as how it is.
I can't say that I've had a good crab cake in NYC (I haven't tried), but I'm kind of surprised. Hudson River blue crabs are a thing. So it's not as if it's an issue of access/availability.
I would wager you can get chowder in NYC that's as good as any in Boston. In fact, I know that some of the "best" in Boston is made by Blount Seafoods which distributes to NYC. That said, I haven't had a great lobster roll or whole belly roll in NYC and they're pretty ubiquitous around here. And there's no NYC answer to the North Shore Roast Beef Sandwich. But it's kind of hard to knock NYC for not having niche local specialties from other places.
New England clam chowder and Manhattan clam chowder are two entirely different stews. One is based on milk or cream, the other on tomatoes (I've called Manhattan clam chowder "minestrone with clams" on at least one occasion. That's not a totally accurate description of Manhattan clam chowder, as minestrone has pasta rather than potatoes in it, but it does have onions and celery, two things you will find in Manhattan but not New England clam chowder.)
Each variety has its partisans. But you aren't likely to run across the New England version in New York, and vice versa. I'm partial to New England clam chowder myself, but won't turn my nose up at the Manhattan variety.
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Originally Posted by BigCity76
What? You need to spend more time or read up more on the history of the city. Of course NYC has designated historical districts and a lot of which are related to the Colonial and Revolutionary time periods. Here's a list for you of just the historic districts in Manhattan alone and not even including the outer boroughs:
What odieluck meant is that New York has few, if any, streets that look like this one in Philadelphia's Society Hill.
Boston's Beacon Hill and Baltimore's Mount Vernon Square are also full of 18th-/early-19th-century streetscapes just like those in Society Hill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I live in NYC and I think it's bull**** we don't have direct airport connections for any one of the three primary airports we have nor any of the secondary ones. It's real goddamn nutty.
I think a through-running commuter rail thing should be going directly JFK's terminal 8 with at least 15 minute frequency if not longer, and the people mover needs to be a free one.
PATH should be going directly into EWR directly and the PATH-WTC and the 6 train need to be combined and through-running.
LaGuardia should have an Astoria Line extension and/or a spur of the Triboro RX/Interborough Express. Or maybe slowly phase out the airport.
Macarthur should have passenger terminals rebuilt on the northern part of its expanse and directly tied into the Ronkokoma LIRR station
Stewart should be served by a spur of Metro-North Port Jervis line and an orbital spur line that goes across the Tappan Zee.
This does remind me of one thing that Baltimore and Philadelphia have that NYC currently doesn't which is commuter rail service through-running the urban core.
The Washington Metro, like most of the systems I refer to as "Second Subway Era"*, is a hybrid that combines urban-circulator and suburban-commuter "remote vehicle storage" functions. I'll get into the reasons why none of the legacy subways do that now and won't in the future in the response below.
Neither of the traditional commuter rail systems operating into Washington — MARC (Maryland Area Rail Commuter) in Maryland and VRE (Virginia Railway Express) in Virginia — operate trains through the District into the other jurisdiction. You won't find New Jersey Transit operating commuter trains through Philadephia, either (the one line it runs into the city terminates at 30th Street Station), but the regional rail system serving Philadelphia's Pennsylvania suburbs is unique among North American commuter rail systems in operating via a tunnel with multiple stops through the city center. Even the Regional Rail line to the airport runs through the tunnel to the northern suburb of Glenside.
*The "First Subway Era" began with the opening of Boston's Tremont Street Subway in 1897 and ended with the opening of Chicago's "Initial System of Subways" in 1940. Six cities built either trolley or rapid transit subways during this period; one (Rochester, NY) closed its subway in 1956.
The "Second Subway Era" began with the opening of the Bay Area Rapid Transit system in 1971 [Philadelphia's PATCO Lindenwold Line, opened in 1969 using the route of an interstate subway opened in 1936, was a precursor] and has yet to conclude. Eight more cities have opened subway tunnels (one ran buses through its originally but now runs a light metro), one has opened an all-elevated rapid transit line, and five more have built light-rail rapid transit systems ("light metros") during this period; Dallas — one of those last four — looks like it's going to build a subway tunnel as well. Cleveland's rapid transit system opened in between the two eras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
New York City lacks a seamless one seat no transfer subway ride across the tri-state area thru each state like the Metro in Washington DC.
Now much of this can be chalked up to pure geography and gargantuan size of the NYC area and surrounding states. The NYC Subway is obviously older and only operates in the city since it's inception. But the fact that the NYC subway doesn't directly go across the Hudson (although PATH has transfers), still stands out especially not connecting Midtown to NJ near the Lincoln Tunnel, or North of it. There's obviously Metro North to CT and numerous forms of commuter rail, but in the DC area you technically can have a one seat ride and cross from Eastern suburbs in Maryland through Downtown Washington passing all the major tourist destinations, and continue out deep through the Northern Va suburbs 30 miles from Downtown without getting off the train.
And regarding the airports, no direct subway station to at least LaGuardia from Midtown is an absolute travesty for the caliber of city it is.
Political more than physical geography explains why there's no such thing as a one-seat train ride across the New York region, Amtrak excluded for obvious reasons.
Publcly run interstate transportation facilities (bridges, tunnels, rail lines) have to be run by interstate agencies okayed by Congress. This includes WMATA. All of the First Subway Era systems were built under contracts or franchises granted by the city government of the city where the subway would run (in Boston's case, a state-created commission built the tunnel and chartered a private company to operate rapid transit trains through it). Thus these systems could not operate beyond the borders of the city (Philadelphia's first line did build a terminal just outside the city limit in Upper Darby Township). Were they to do so now, they would probably need to enter into agreements with either the interstate agencies (Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, Delaware River Port Authority, etc.) or the transit agency serving the other state (New Jersey Transit Corporation in the case of both Philadelphia and New York). Those can be delicate and time-consuming to work out.
Back to the larger subject: Of course, Philadelphians will point out that one thing it has that New York doesn't is more reasonable housing costs. This and the two cities' proximity are the main reasons why the net flow of population between the two cities has been towards Philadelphia for the past three decades. Amtrak's Acela makes Manhattan and Center City Philadelphia virtual suburbs of each other, so those who can afford it and still need to be in New York have been resettling here. Untethering professional jobs from offices makes it possible for even more New Yorkers to do this.
Agreed here. Philly, imo, has the best beaches in their MSA and Boston has the best train access close to the CBD. Cant really best Philly though, their beaches in NJ and DE are top notch. Another thing Philly has others dont, is terminal-side Train access to the Center City. PHL Airport is the best. Dont want to sound like a Philly booster, but it really HAS it. Eventually I want to move down to Philly area because it has everything I would need.
And yeah, that can be a positive or negative. I personally like nightlife streets (ie, that one in Madrid i forgot the name of, Temple Bar, Landsdowne St, Grove St). But i know others like the vibe of hells kitchen which is totally preferential.
I am unfamiliar with Philly but i even noticed some agglomerations of places to go to. Maybe in smaller cities its a thing? Due to NYC sheer size i think it operates as how it is.
Technical nit: The counties of the southern Jersey Shore (Atlantic and Cape May) are their own MSAs separate from Philadelphia. Both, however, are part of the Philadelphia CSA.
Agreed, however, that the Jersey Shore has the best beaches. Part of that shore, however, lies in New York's orbit, and even its MSA.
A comment I wanted to make regarding GeoffD's comment about rail transit to the Northeast Corridor airports: Yeah, that was a diss, but not a totally unwarranted one, for Boston gets an asterisk in this category because one has to board a shuttle bus to travel between the Logan International Airport terminals and the Airport subway station.
Boston shares with New York City beaches you can reach via subway, something Philly lacks, but the Jersey Shore's close enough and the transit connections (mostly buses but also a rail line to Atlantic City) are pretty good.
Otherwise, your explanation of why you may eventually decamp to Philly from Boston reminds me of that quote I like to toss about about this city:
"It's like 80 percent of New York at 20 percent of the cost!"
In the case of Boston, unless you're in tech, I think the percentages change to 95 and 25.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 08-05-2023 at 12:25 PM..
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