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I don't think this holds anymore. Dallas has a significantly larger metropolitan economy and population than just about all of these with Houston being the only one around the same size. There have been a series of major corporate relocations to the Metroplex placing it at number 5 after NYC, Bay Area, Chicago, and Houston while Boston, Atlanta, Miami, and Philadelphia are not close. The sheer size of the gap is so large at this point, that I find it difficult to dismiss.
I thought I was alone in thinking like this. You put it succinctly and more eloquently.
I really think the rapid growth in population and GDP of DFW isn't often factored in in many discussions on here.
The southern big 4 were on pretty even footing in 2000, but a lot has happened in the last quarter century.
Even when we talk about rapidly growing Sunbelt cities we often lump them all together. But two are definitely growing a bit faster than the other 2.
Size isn't a big qualifier imo, but it is a factor. DFW is top 6 in
GDP
MSA
UA
CSA
That definitely comes into play when all other factors are close.
Quote:
Meanwhile, things like being the educational capital have in some senses eroded a bit as the student population at what is now a far more diversified number of top institutions has become more widely distributed.
I agree here too, but Boston is a power player in so many industries. Apart from Biomedical, pharmaceuticals and health, it does really well in financial services, technology, scientific services, education and government. It is just as well rounded economically as DFW and Atlanta but is more dominant in key industries.
On paper DFW is larger than Boston in all metrics since DFW passed Boston on CSA 2 years ago. But in terms of importance, Boston is more dominant in a range of industries.
I thought I was alone in thinking like this. You put it succinctly and more eloquently.
I really think the rapid growth in population and GDP of DFW isn't often factored in in many discussions on here.
The southern big 4 were on pretty even footing in 2000, but a lot has happened in the last quarter century.
Even when we talk about rapidly growing Sunbelt cities we often lump them all together. But two are definitely growing a bit faster than the other 2.
Size isn't a big qualifier imo, but it is a factor. DFW is top 6 in
GDP
MSA
UA
CSA
That definitely comes into play when all other factors are close.
I agree here too, but Boston is a power player in so many industries. Apart from Biomedical, pharmaceuticals and health, it does really well in financial services, technology, scientific services, education and government. It is just as well rounded economically as DFW and Atlanta but is more dominant in key industries.
On paper DFW is larger than Boston in all metrics since DFW passed Boston on CSA 2 years ago. But in terms of importance, Boston is more dominant in a range of industries.
I think of Boston as akin to DFW in being very good in several things, but not overwhelmingly dominant in any of these. I put Boston just below Houston and DFW at this point though it's just barely so and a very recent turn of events. The large spate of corporate relocations over the last decade has been maturing as these moves have solidified where it's not just a handful of top brass anymore. That's been happening alongside even greater corporate consolidation. One particularly good example: Charles Schwab moved from the Bay Area to DFW with a handful of employees and then kept on picking up pace. During this time period, it acquired TD Ameritrade which had earlier itself acquired Scottrade, and Schwab over the last year has been shifting customers and employees from the subsidary over to itself. That first year of the move isn't massively impactful, but if you get several of them and you give them several years to get settled and consolidate there, and you've got something pretty big.
Size isn't a good qualifier when you're talking about contexts where there are massive disparities like if you were to compare a US city to one based in Indonesia. However, within a common market that is for the most part without internal migration or trade controls, then it becomes a far more important factor. The GDP difference I'm talking about is also on a nominal level rather than adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity and DFW (and to a lesser extent Houston) is substantially outpacing the others. On top of that, the corporate headquarters and the size by market cap and revenue of those companies also show a top level shift in addition to raw population shift. I think it's hard to ignore this reshuffling at this point.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-07-2024 at 10:35 AM..
I argue that Boston is more important and has a bigger impact.
For DFW they mostly just are housing companies that were started somewhere else and giving them a place to conduct business. Kind of like China. That's it for Dallas.
Boston on the other hand has been the epicenter for a lot of innovative, breakthrough and game changing discoveries. It's home to Harvard and MIT for crying out loud. It's been the epicenter for Life Sciences, Robotics, Technology and many other industries.
Houston has dramatically changed the world and defined a massive global energy industry. The world would not be the same today without all the innovation that has come out of Houston. It also has made its mark in space exploration and is home to Rice University. I'm sorry but Houston has made a much bigger mark on the world than has Dallas. Having luxury shopping and "The Star", luring companies to relocate, building "Glow-In-The-Dark" parks. etc. This stuff has no impact on the world.
i argue that boston is more important and has a bigger impact.
For dfw they mostly just are housing companies that were started somewhere else and giving them a place to conduct business. Kind of like china. That's it for dallas.
Boston on the other hand has been the epicenter for a lot of innovative, breakthrough and game changing discoveries. It's home to harvard and mit for crying out loud. It's been the epicenter for life sciences, robotics, technology and many other industries.
Houston has dramatically changed the world and defined a massive global energy industry. The world would not be the same today without all the innovation that has come out of houston. It also has made its mark in space exploration and is home to rice university. I'm sorry but houston has made a much bigger mark on the world than has dallas. Having luxury shopping and "the star", luring companies to relocate, building "glow-in-the-dark" parks. Etc. This stuff has no impact on the world.
I argue that Boston is more important and has a bigger impact.
For DFW they mostly just are housing companies that were started somewhere else and giving them a place to conduct business. Kind of like China. That's it for Dallas.
Boston on the other hand has been the epicenter for a lot of innovative, breakthrough and game changing discoveries. It's home to Harvard and MIT for crying out loud. It's been the epicenter for Life Sciences, Robotics, Technology and many other industries.
So I’m just going to say, there’s a big misconception here. While the companies relocate from elsewhere, a lot of the infrastructure was made from the ground up in DFW. For example, CharlesSchwab acquired TD Ameritrade, they immediately had a much bigger presence in DFW than they did anywhere. And the reason that Schwab and TD had big presence in DFW is also due to other companies that acquired Dallas based companies. Same reason ExxonMobil, HPE and AIG had relocations in Houston. So it’s not just “housing places from abroad”. A lot happens behind the scenes before that sets up the moves
I don't think this holds anymore. Dallas has a significantly larger metropolitan economy and population than just about all of these with Houston being the only one around the same size. There have been a series of major corporate relocations to the Metroplex placing it at number 5 after NYC, Bay Area, Chicago, and Houston while Boston, Atlanta, Miami, and Philadelphia are not close. The sheer size of the gap is so large at this point, that I find it difficult to dismiss.
I put Houston ahead of Dallas because the population, GDP, and major corporate HQ counts are close, but Houston has more headquarters, has a major port, and what's more, is absolutely dominant in a primary field (energy) among metropolitan areas in the US whereas DFW is more of a major player in many fields.
Meanwhile, things like being the educational capital have in some senses eroded a bit as the student population at what is now a far more diversified number of top institutions has become more widely distributed.
Dallas is definitely dominant in telecom. Telecom isn’t what it used to be but it’s still an important industry that Dallas dominates
I argue that Boston is more important and has a bigger impact.
For DFW they mostly just are housing companies that were started somewhere else and giving them a place to conduct business. Kind of like China. That's it for Dallas.
Boston on the other hand has been the epicenter for a lot of innovative, breakthrough and game changing discoveries. It's home to Harvard and MIT for crying out loud. It's been the epicenter for Life Sciences, Robotics, Technology and many other industries.
Houston has dramatically changed the world and defined a massive global energy industry. The world would not be the same today without all the innovation that has come out of Houston. It also has made its mark in space exploration and is home to Rice University. I'm sorry but Houston has made a much bigger mark on the world than has Dallas. Having luxury shopping and "The Star", luring companies to relocate, building "Glow-In-The-Dark" parks. etc. This stuff has no impact on the world.
I’m not trying to turn this into a pissing contest but the integrated circuit was created in Dallas by Jack Kilby, while working for Texas Instruments. Why do some act like Dallas has contributed nothing and just take in corporations? A lot of which is so normal in today’s society, people don’t think of where it came from. Never really thought it was a place to really brag, but 7-Eleven was founded in Dallas as the world’s first convenience store. Again, it’s so normal, even mom and pop “corner stores”…people don’t think about the origin.
I’m not trying to turn this into a pissing contest but the integrated circuit was created in Dallas by Jack Kilby, while working for Texas Instruments. Why do some act like Dallas has contributed nothing and just take in corporations? A lot of which is so normal in today’s society, people don’t think of where it came from. Never really thought it was a place to really brag, but 7-Eleven was founded in Dallas as the world’s first convenience store. Again, it’s so normal, even mom and pop “corner stores”…people don’t think about the origin.
To be clear, most of the history of the semiconductor occurred in the Silicon Valley. What we modernly refer to as chips is more related to a different invention that took place in San Jose by a man named Robert Noyce in 1959. Hence the term “Silicon Valley”. Both Kilby and Noyce’s inventions adapted many principles being previously used.
That being said, I do agree that those that are saying that DFW’s “relocation pull” ignores a lot that happens behind the scenes from the ground up in Dallas. As I mentioned in the post above.
I’m not trying to turn this into a pissing contest but the integrated circuit was created in Dallas by Jack Kilby, while working for Texas Instruments. Why do some act like Dallas has contributed nothing and just take in corporations? A lot of which is so normal in today’s society, people don’t think of where it came from. Never really thought it was a place to really brag, but 7-Eleven was founded in Dallas as the world’s first convenience store. Again, it’s so normal, even mom and pop “corner stores”…people don’t think about the origin.
Point about 7-Eleven is well taken, but I'd argue that Dallas' other main retail export is just as well known, even if it is experiencing turbulence these days:
Nieman Marcus, the ne plus ultra of luxury department stores.
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Boston vs DFW vs Houston
