2020s Midpoint: Top 50 US Cities... (living, state, largest, compared)
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There's also a massive difference in metropolitan GDP and the number of major corporate headquarters in Dallas and Houston versus Atlanta and Miami, especially in the comparison to Miami. Meanwhile, Atlanta and Miami have no major industrial sectors cornered to offset that difference. Atlanta does not having anything like in regards to cultural production that SF has for technology or DC has for defense and governmental agencies. It's not even remotely close because in a lot of ways LA and NYC are much more prominent players in that realm than Atlanta is and there are other players in that field that are more on par with Atlanta. SF and DC are both overwhelmingly dominant in their fields rather than a potential candidate for number three as Atlanta is in terms of cultural production. Moreover, media and entertainment now has a far larger spread than ever since it's been a while since those have been predominantly the purview of box offices, broadcast radio stations, and major television channels. Instead, most people's media intake have rapidly shifted towards streaming and social media content which have far more varied points of production.
Miami is especially weak on corporate headquarters for any major corporations and doesn't really incubate a large presence in any particularly large industries. It has a large tourism sector, but it's not a major headquarters for such with corporations based in Miami projecting influence over other areas. I think there's a reasonable argument that Seattle should be placed over it, and potentially even MSP and Detroit.
You're really trying to sell Atlanta short big time in that media department and I will argue that having 11 cable network HQs and producing the 2nd most films behind LA definitely sounds like it's pretty dominant in media, which by the way, is an industry. But agree to disagree.
Also, I can't take anyone who believes MSP and Detroit could potentially rank above Miami seriously. Obviously, we are looking at this from two different perspectives, but even Seattle lags Miami in terms of its overall city profile.
Lastly, I won't say too much about that capital of this or that for Atlanta and Miami, but trying to diminish those or downplay them is quite comical.
I just don’t like our (latino) cultures being lumped together as if we’re a monolith.
I mean, this is kind of the American Way, or Eurocentric view, from Day One of European colonization. Euros came here and viewed Indigenous peoples as a monolith and this was proven thru a variety of actions...
Euros viewed African peoples as a monolith and proved this thru numerous acts...
You fast forward all the way to today, what we've grown up under within American culture, has devolved all the way into colloquialism where we speak of "Hispanic" or "Latino" as a race, which it isn't. We go so far as to consider nationalities as "ethnicities"---->from Euro nationalities ("I'm German; I'm Romanian; I'm Irish; etc), to evryone else...
There are scores and scores of Black people from Spanish speaking countries, yet over here in America we don't tend to refer to them that way, though in Spanish speaking countries there is certainly an understanding of racial difference...
But over here all you have to do is speak Spanish and you're all the same. I'm saying all this to say I agree with you, as an African-descended American who continues to be viewed as "one and the same". It's just kind of the American Way, derived from historic Eurocentric world view, and is the common understanding of how we view race and ethnicity today...
Miami may have a broader range of Latin representation than most places but I don't think that invalidates the strength of the Latin representation in other places. But ultimately, I agree more with KinBueno, given the fact I don't think America has one racial or ethnic capital of anything, I think some people have an exaggerated view of what one place's (in this case, Miami for Hispanics, Atlanta for Blacks) representation of said people correlates to "importance"...
I personally think it's more important to be more culturally blended with solid representation from many, rather than Miami's overarching dominant Hispanic culture...
I could be wrong but both Univision and Telemundo broadcast their national newscasts from Miami. They don’t broadcast from NYC like ABC, NBC, CBS.
There is another thread on the “Hispanic Capital” of the U.S. so I won’t belabor the point here. I just think Miami wields more influence than Seattle, MSP, or Detroit. I’m not a Miami booster. That’s just my observation.
Telemundo definitely. Univision also does some of its national newscasts from Miami, though LA and NYC sometimes does so as well and have their own studios. It's certainly prominent which is why it's got a pretty solid argument for being in the top ten. Again though, this is an industry by its nature that's very publicly visible as is media and entertainment. There are other industries though that have a lot of value and are not nearly as prominently featured and without it being more explicitly noted as being from or headquartered in a particular location. The revenue and valuation for media can be pretty high, but it can be even higher for other industries, and the kind of sea changes we've seen over the past two decades of how media is consumed, shared, and distributed makes it a different beast from what it was like before when the avenues from which you get media and entertainment were quite different. That's where the Bay Area plays a very substantial role.
Seattle is an especially large part of that new media distribution system due to Microsoft and Amazon. MSP and Detroit are not, and instead rely more on being major centers of corporate headquarters in other sectors. That's something of which Miami has surprisingly little and even the two major studios you mentioned are divisions or subsidiaries of much larger conglomerates based elsewhere. Univision may have major production in Miami, but it is headquartered in NYC and its parent company is dual headquartered in Mexico City and New York City and whose parent company in turn is headquartered in Mexico City. Telemundo is based in Miami, but its direct parent company is NBCUniversal Telemundo Enterprises based in New York City and which itself is a division of Comcast which is headquartered in Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthAmerica_US
Add me as someone who isn’t a Miami booster that thinks of Miami as a capital of Latin America.
Miami seems to be where all of Latin America, or the Hispanic/Brazilian world.I think only NYC compares to Miami in this regard.
Texas & California seem to have a strong tie to Mexico. Latinos in LA are ~63% Mexican, Houston is 47% Mexican. With Los Angeles, there seems to be a very strong United States Hispanic culture all of its own. You’re not going to see the term “cholo” or “chicano” in Miami like you do in Los Angeles.
From Argentina, Brasil, Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Chile, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, etc you get some vastly different cultures. I’ve met Brazilians who never heard of a taco and many, many who haven’t eaten Mexican food and outside some of the largest cities, it can be hard to find.
I just feel Miami is an international hub of the Spanish and Portuguese speaking world & wealth whereas California and Texas are more centered around Mexico, the Southwest US (because latinos have long been established in the southwest). NYC seems to be up there too but obviously it’s not as dominated by Latinos as Miami is.
Anyway, that’s my sort of ignorant view as a Brazilian-American and having visited Chile, Argentina & Brazil fairly regularly. I don’t really care about Miami, LA or Houston I just don’t like our (latino) cultures being lumped together as if we’re a monolith. My username is derived from the fact I do not refer to the United States, but I do sometimes refer to people from the U.S. as North Americans.
Miami is interesting in that sense. NYC is also strongly pan-Hispanic but with so much of everyone else it's not usually considered the capital of Latin America because NYC and the Tri-State area is much larger and overall wealthier and has a lot of everyone else as well.
Los Angeles is interesting in that it is very heavily Mexico and Chicano based, though it is of such a large size that some of the other Latin American communities also have sizable numbers.
I think the question is more about how these cities compare overall on influence over other people rather than how much one community or another plays a larger proportional role over the city / metropolitan area. I think of that as a separate, but tangentially related question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KinBueno
Not sure how some made up capital of so and so is very important.
Most of South America is still developing.
Most 1st world nations are in Europe and Asia.
So Miami is capital of the 3rd world, what an honor.
You have cities like NY and SF with strong connections to London, Tokyo, Bangkok.... Etc and you have Miami with Strong connections to folks Fleeing Castro's Cuba and Chavez's/Maduro's Venezuela.
New York and SF has strong ties to world class cities because of their economy. Miami has strong ties to Latin America because it grew a large Spanish population based on asylum seekers fleeing Cuba.
This capital nonsense based on ethnicity is nonsense. It's just a numbers game.
What concrete importance does Miami confer that others don't? Lots of Spanish speakers? I mean that can be found anywhere.
Genuine Capitals have a strong foundation in a sector. Like NY does with finance, or SF does with Tech.
Having tons of asylum seekersand poor folk trying to come to the US to better themselves may make that city a melting pot, but that doesn't automatically translate into an important city. The Gateway thing sounds nice on brochures but it doesn't equate to importance.
Miami's influence would be based on its media output where it does have major Spanish language studios and media production and it's also the base for a lot of financial services and regional headquarters for operations in Latin America. This is because there's a good chunk of the Latin American community in the Miami area that are quite wealthy and have a decent degree of economic influence and even political influence in some of these other countries. I don't think dismissing it makes sense nor does just saying Latin American or South America is just developing countries mean it should be wholesale dismissed as these are often middle income countries with some of them being quite populous. There's a question of how many people you are affecting and to what extent, and Miami does have an outsized role to play in Latin America and Latin America is a relatively populous region. Other cities in the US don't generally have quite the same kind of role in other parts of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdw1084
You're really trying to sell Atlanta short big time in that media department and I will argue that having 11 cable network HQs and producing the 2nd most films behind LA definitely sounds like it's pretty dominant in media, which by the way, is an industry. But agree to disagree.
Also, I can't take anyone who believes MSP and Detroit could potentially rank above Miami seriously. Obviously, we are looking at this from two different perspectives, but even Seattle lags Miami in terms of its overall city profile.
Lastly, I won't say too much about that capital of this or that for Atlanta and Miami, but trying to diminish those or downplay them is quite comical.
Being 2nd does not seem to be the same thing as dominant or even pretty dominant and the NYC area sometimes gets second though both NYC and Atlanta will generally be second and third with some distance to LA. News media in the US is strongly concentrated in DC and NYC. I can see an argument for it being third here.
Putting Atlanta in the top ten does not seem to me as selling Atlanta short.
As I said before with other entries, there's not a clear cut winner on some of these things and I think rankings can slide within a certain reasonable band for all the cities. I think it's a hard argument to put Seattle above Miami and an even more difficult one for MSP and Detroit. MSP is an odd one because it has a lot of very large publicly traded as well as a few privately held corporations that are massive. Detroit also has something similar to that effect, and while arguably less so at this point than MSP, it does have a prominent sector in regards to the automotive industry.
I do like both Atlanta and Miami and prefer them both to DFW, Houston, MSP, and Detroit.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-11-2024 at 08:39 PM..
I mean, this is kind of the American Way, or Eurocentric view, from Day One of European colonization. Euros came here and viewed Indigenous peoples as a monolith and this was proven thru a variety of actions...
Euros viewed African peoples as a monolith and proved this thru numerous acts...
You fast forward all the way to today, what we've grown up under within American culture, has devolved all the way into colloquialism where we speak of "Hispanic" or "Latino" as a race, which it isn't. We go so far as to consider nationalities as "ethnicities"---->from Euro nationalities ("I'm German; I'm Romanian; I'm Irish; etc), to evryone else...
There are scores and scores of Black people from Spanish speaking countries, yet over here in America we don't tend to refer to them that way, though in Spanish speaking countries there is certainly an understanding of racial difference...
But over here all you have to do is speak Spanish and you're all the same. I'm saying all this to say I agree with you, as an African-descended American who continues to be viewed as "one and the same". It's just kind of the American Way, derived from historic Eurocentric world view, and is the common understanding of how we view race and ethnicity today...
Miami may have a broader range of Latin representation than most places but I don't think that invalidates the strength of the Latin representation in other places. But ultimately, I agree more with KinBueno, given the fact I don't think America has one racial or ethnic capital of anything, I think some people have an exaggerated view of what one place's (in this case, Miami for Hispanics, Atlanta for Blacks) representation of said people correlates to "importance"...
I personally think it's more important to be more culturally blended with solid representation from many, rather than Miami's overarching dominant Hispanic culture...
Right and European colonization of the Americas is by and large the work of a handful of countries in Europe and meanwhile the roots of African-American culture and Black Hispanic cultures have their African roots primarily from a fairly small swathe of Africa.
I also agree that these capitals of one large swathe of people or another doesn't necessarily play out that strongly in terms of influence or power especially as it is pretty widely dispersed with major centers, arguably even larger centers, than Atlanta or Miami. Miami also has to contend with a lot of media and entertainment in the Spanish language generated from not just NYC and LA in the US, but also Mexico City, Bogota, and elsewhere that are consumed within the US and elsewhere in the Spanish-language speaking world.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-11-2024 at 08:53 PM..
I mean, this is kind of the American Way, or Eurocentric view, from Day One of European colonization. Euros came here and viewed Indigenous peoples as a monolith and this was proven thru a variety of actions...
Euros viewed African peoples as a monolith and proved this thru numerous acts...
You fast forward all the way to today, what we've grown up under within American culture, has devolved all the way into colloquialism where we speak of "Hispanic" or "Latino" as a race, which it isn't. We go so far as to consider nationalities as "ethnicities"---->from Euro nationalities ("I'm German; I'm Romanian; I'm Irish; etc), to evryone else...
There are scores and scores of Black people from Spanish speaking countries, yet over here in America we don't tend to refer to them that way, though in Spanish speaking countries there is certainly an understanding of racial difference...
But over here all you have to do is speak Spanish and you're all the same. I'm saying all this to say I agree with you, as an African-descended American who continues to be viewed as "one and the same". It's just kind of the American Way, derived from historic Eurocentric world view, and is the common understanding of how we view race and ethnicity today...
Miami may have a broader range of Latin representation than most places but I don't think that invalidates the strength of the Latin representation in other places. But ultimately, I agree more with KinBueno, given the fact I don't think America has one racial or ethnic capital of anything, I think some people have an exaggerated view of what one place's (in this case, Miami for Hispanics, Atlanta for Blacks) representation of said people correlates to "importance"...
I personally think it's more important to be more culturally blended with solid representation from many, rather than Miami's overarching dominant Hispanic culture...
People certainly lump “Slavic” into a group of cultures. Being under United Spanish rule for 400 years shaped the cultures of Latin America much like being part of the Russian Empire (then The USSR) cause a Slavic culture to emerge. Or like how in America there are “Mediterranean” restaurants cause the cuisines of Greece, Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt have big similarities since they were all in the same country for almost 2000 years.
I’d also like to point out “white” is absolutely a term generally associated with “European cultures” as a broad stroke. Whether someone is a Bosnian Muslim, an Irish Catholic or a Polish Jew. They’re just white people and that’s one area where you get no credit for diversity. Even where there are recent immigrants like Armenians or former USSR bloc countries.
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I have a question: how does everyone rank Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA in their list? Like what #, and also: what would its peer cities in the ranking even...?
RSB seems like it throws a monkey wrench into all of this because it is a true set of "secondary" cities, but which are far enough away to be considered a separate metro area. There are no other secondary cities that exist as a separate standalone metro, save for San Jose, which is sort of graduated now as a primary city of its own (yes...?)
There are also Bridgeport-Stamford, Oxnard, Wilmington WE, Trenton, Paterson, Worcester, Springfield MA, Alexandria VA, Arlington VA, Bethesda, Bellevue, Tacoma, Arlington TX, Plano, Irving, etc. but I wouldn't really argue any of these as secondary cities. They are more tertiary cities, I suppose...?
Secondary cities, among RSB, would be Fort Worth, Newark, Jersey City, Oakland, St. Paul, Fort Lauderdale, St. Petersburg, etc. Only RSB is a separate metro area.
So, again, I ask, where does Riverside-San Bernardino belong? Is it even in the Top 50? Certainly it is by population. But by influence and importance? Or do we make a special case and just lump of with Los Angeles? Honestly curious here.
I have a question: how does everyone rank Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA in their list? Like what #, and also: what would its peer cities in the ranking even...?
I treat it like is doesn't exist and skip it altogether.
I may use the numbers in conjunction with LA's when it suits my purposes, but even then, I only refer to the grouping as LA CSA.
I'm my eyes Riverside is a non-metro. I see it as LA overflow
It is huge and has a substantial economic output, put it's really LA but not really.
I have a question: how does everyone rank Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA in their list? Like what #, and also: what would its peer cities in the ranking even...?
RSB seems like it throws a monkey wrench into all of this because it is a true set of "secondary" cities, but which are far enough away to be considered a separate metro area. There are no other secondary cities that exist as a separate standalone metro, save for San Jose, which is sort of graduated now as a primary city of its own (yes...?)
There are also Bridgeport-Stamford, Oxnard, Wilmington WE, Trenton, Paterson, Worcester, Springfield MA, Alexandria VA, Arlington VA, Bethesda, Bellevue, Tacoma, Arlington TX, Plano, Irving, etc. but I wouldn't really argue any of these as secondary cities. They are more tertiary cities, I suppose...?
Secondary cities, among RSB, would be Fort Worth, Newark, Jersey City, Oakland, St. Paul, Fort Lauderdale, St. Petersburg, etc. Only RSB is a separate metro area.
So, again, I ask, where does Riverside-San Bernardino belong? Is it even in the Top 50? Certainly it is by population. But by influence and importance? Or do we make a special case and just lump of with Los Angeles? Honestly curious here.
The bulk of the population is just part of the Los Angeles urban area. There is no real dividing line between the urban area. The counties are massive and there *are* separate urban areas in those counties like the Coachella Valley / Palm Springs area or Barstow. Most of what you've listed are parts of large metropolitan areas, and I don't consider Riverside-San Bernardino to be a special case.
So as part of Los Angeles, I put it at number 4.
1. New York City
2. DC - Baltimore
3. San Francisco Bay Area
4. Los Angeles
5. Chicago
6. Houston
7. Dallas - Fort Worth
8. Boston
9. Atlanta
10. Miami
11. Philadelphia
12. Seattle
13. Detroit
14. MSP
15. San Diego
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-13-2024 at 06:56 AM..
I have a question: how does everyone rank Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA in their list? Like what #, and also: what would its peer cities in the ranking even...?
RSB seems like it throws a monkey wrench into all of this because it is a true set of "secondary" cities, but which are far enough away to be considered a separate metro area. There are no other secondary cities that exist as a separate standalone metro, save for San Jose, which is sort of graduated now as a primary city of its own (yes...?)
There are also Bridgeport-Stamford, Oxnard, Wilmington WE, Trenton, Paterson, Worcester, Springfield MA, Alexandria VA, Arlington VA, Bethesda, Bellevue, Tacoma, Arlington TX, Plano, Irving, etc. but I wouldn't really argue any of these as secondary cities. They are more tertiary cities, I suppose...?
Secondary cities, among RSB, would be Fort Worth, Newark, Jersey City, Oakland, St. Paul, Fort Lauderdale, St. Petersburg, etc. Only RSB is a separate metro area.
So, again, I ask, where does Riverside-San Bernardino belong? Is it even in the Top 50? Certainly it is by population. But by influence and importance? Or do we make a special case and just lump of with Los Angeles? Honestly curious here.
I would not class Fort Worth, Oakland, St. Petersburg or St. Paul as "secondary cities," especially the last of the four, as its population is close to that of Minneapolis itself and it serves as the state capital. Oakland, St. Pete and St. Paul also share city limits with the other core city next door; that the Oakland-San Francisco city line runs down the middle of San Francisco Bay and the St. Pete-Tampa line is in the middle of Tampa Bay is of no import.
And despite the population differences between the other two and their co-core cities, both have functioned as core cities along with those neighbors.
Also: Springfield, MA also falls into this "co-core city" category: it's bigger than Hartford. The airport the two cities share happens to be in Connecticut because Springfield sits close to the Massachusetts/Connecticut border, but Windsor Locks is roughly equidistant between the two cities. I'd also class Worcester (Massachusetts' second-largest city) as secondary rather than tertiary (Greater Boston's tertiary cities include Brockton, Lawrence, Lynn and Lowell).
Last edited by MarketStEl; 03-13-2024 at 06:37 AM..
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