2020s Midpoint: Top 50 US Cities... (live, state, largest, places)
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People certainly lump “Slavic” into a group of cultures. Being under United Spanish rule for 400 years shaped the cultures of Latin America much like being part of the Russian Empire (then The USSR) cause a Slavic culture to emerge. Or like how in America there are “Mediterranean” restaurants cause the cuisines of Greece, Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt have big similarities since they were all in the same country for almost 2000 years.
I’d also like to point out “white” is absolutely a term generally associated with “European cultures” as a broad stroke. Whether someone is a Bosnian Muslim, an Irish Catholic or a Polish Jew. They’re just white people and that’s one area where you get no credit for diversity. Even where there are recent immigrants like Armenians or former USSR bloc countries.
Most of South America wasn’t under Spanish rule.
Anyway, Miami is just very relevant in the world, whatever you want to call it.
I think Miami, Orlando & NYC are 3 of the stronger for Brazilians, at least. Not only what I’ve noticed personally but pretty much most lists.
Anyway, Miami is just very relevant in the world, whatever you want to call it.
I think Miami, Orlando & NYC are 3 of the stronger for Brazilians, at least. Not only what I’ve noticed personally but pretty much most lists.
The Boston area has the largest Brazilian population among US urban areas. That population is also augmented by the largest Portuguese American population and Cape Verdean American population which combined make for the largest Lusophone population in the US. It's not a very large part of the US population overall and while Brazil is very large and quite populous, its economic pull and influence is not as large as perhaps its land area and population size might suggest.
I think the uber-wealthy Brazilians living in or spending part time in the US are for the most part not in the Boston area, but instead Miami and NYC.
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Originally Posted by KinBueno
I treat it like is doesn't exist and skip it altogether.
I may use the numbers in conjunction with LA's when it suits my purposes, but even then, I only refer to the grouping as LA CSA.
I'm my eyes Riverside is a non-metro. I see it as LA overflow
It is huge and has a substantial economic output, put it's really LA but not really.
So, we *are* following the US census definitions of metro areas, save for a few exceptions, wherein we are not, then? Are these handled on a case-by-case basis?
Like, this is why it gets so inconsistent. Because now more cans of worms are getting opened. Like. Okay. Do we also decide to lump Raleigh and Durham together (they are separate MSAs) and rank RD among Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, instead of just Raleigh by itself with Richmond, Louisville, Memphis, and then place Durham by itself further on down the list (certainly not in the top 50 obviously, but maybe in a hypothetical top 100 though)?
Deciding to lump SJ (a separate MSA) with SF also has major ramifications. With SJ, cases can be made for the SF Bay Area to slide up #3 even.
I'm not even sure how to rank Riverside-San Bernardino on this list if we are to consider it a separate entity.
Like, it has honestly no peers to place it with in the ranking. Its peer would be, like, idk, Mesa/Scottsdale/Tempe/Gilbert Arizona, if such a metro existed (which it wouldn't because these are much closer to PHX, than RSB is to LA), or maybe Palm Beach County (a giant suburb county of Miami that is super far from downtown Miami and somehow still considered part of the Miami MSA) but there again, Palm Beach County FL is not a standalone MSA). So these examples are fictional. If RSB is to be stand alone would it pair more with Austin, or Jacksonville, or neither honestly? RSB is such an oddball MSA.
Census Dept. rules result in odd MSA splits, sometimes in areas with continuous density. County lines and their other rules are too blunt. So we try to make comparisons more realistic.
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Originally Posted by mhays25
Census Dept. rules result in odd MSA splits, sometimes in areas with continuous density. County lines and their other rules are too blunt. So we try to make comparisons more realistic.
That is a really succinct way of putting it, and I tend to agree. But it is still murky and undefined how much leeway we allow in special cases.
And so, again, potentially more cans of worms. Is Baltimore to be lumped with Washington, then? Providence lumped with Boston? Why not lump Philadelphia with NYC, or Milwaukee with Chicago, as very extreme examples? Don't we start creeping into CSA definitions at some point? How far away from a core city can you get, and say you are still functionally tied to the central city? Like, what is the distance cut-off? 60 miles?
And again, I am not trying to equate RSB to any of these cities. RSB developed sort of inorganically as a suburban type of city to the port of Los Angeles. Whereas Baltimore, Providence, etc. were and are very much so standalone cities. There also isn't a wall of continuous sprawl between Baltimore and Washington as there is between LA and RSB either.
What about Durham though?
Also as another poster explained, daisy-chained cities in the Rhine-Ruhr region of Germany do not end up being the most important influential city area of the country, despite their size advantage. It still seems having one core city is, like, somehow part of the influence equation somehow.
So, idk. I am just kind of rambling and ruminating over this. Seems like there is no way to perfectly standardize these types of lists because people will always argue. We must follow the US Census to the T! Or we can deviate, but only for x. Or for x and y, but not for z.
FWIW I do not think Providence should be lumped with Boston, nor Baltimore with Washington. But Durham with Raleigh is a possibility. SJ with SF is a strong possibility. I guess RSB with LA is a strong possibility too.
Ranking RSB by itself (again by importance/influence) is just so wonky, otherwise.
The Boston area has the largest Brazilian population among US urban areas. That population is also augmented by the largest Portuguese American population and Cape Verdean American population which combined make for the largest Lusophone population in the US. It's not a very large part of the US population overall and while Brazil is very large and quite populous, its economic pull and influence is not as large as perhaps its land area and population size might suggest.
I think the uber-wealthy Brazilians living in or spending part time in the US are for the most part not in the Boston area, but instead Miami and NYC.
Are you Brazilian? As silly as it sounds, things like Disney are more impact than simply where people are living. Disney is oddly popular with 1/3 of Brazilian visitors to the U.S. going to Disney with over 800,000 visiting annually pre-pandemic. Florida & NY seem to be the places that stick out culturally for Brazil and Brazilian media & pop culture.
Not sure what Portugal & Cabo Verde have to do with Brazil anymore than New Zealand & the UK are with the U.S.
Anyway, I’m just saying. Miami & Florida has a prominence in some parts of the world that is a bit stronger than Texas & LA (& Vice versa. Especially regarding Mexico).
Last edited by NorthAmerica_US; 03-13-2024 at 11:02 AM..
Are you Brazilian? As silly as it sounds, things like Disney are more impact than simply where people are living. Disney is oddly popular with 1/3 of Brazilian visitors to the U.S. going to Disney with over 800,000 visiting annually pre-pandemic. Florida & NY seem to be the places that stick out culturally for Brazil and Brazilian media & pop culture.
Not sure what Portugal & Cabo Verde have to do with Brazil anymore than New Zealand & the UK are with the U.S.
Anyway, I’m just saying. Miami & Florida has a prominence in some parts of the world that is a bit stronger than Texas & LA (& Vice versa. Especially regarding Mexico).
Disney as in the actual production studios that make the cultural products that are shared globally and make people want to go to one of the Disney parks and the corporate headquarters of the entire conglomerate is based in the Los Angeles area.
Florida does stick out as there is the larger community in the Miami area that also has some of the wealthier bits of the community and in addition to that there's the smaller Orlando community and the even smaller Jacksonville community. Florida as a state including all of these communities has the largest Brazilian community among states. However, by metropolitan area, Boston has more than any single one of those metropolitan areas though some of that gets spread into neighboring Rhode Island which is a different state. This similarly holds for New York City where a lot of the Brazilian community is over state lines in New Jersey but still part of the NYC metropolitan area. The Boston community though generally does not have a lot of the uber-wealthy and so gets a lot less attention even though it's large than any of the ones in Florida.
Portugal and Cabo Verde matter in the context of helping to understand part of why the Brazilian population is so large in the Boston area as the Portuguese-speaking community helped with maintaining and attracting more and more of a population from all three of these places.
Absolutely, Miami has more prominence than any Texan city or Los Angeles among Brazilians. Brazilians though are also a very small community within the US and there's not much particularly targeted towards Brazilians in Brazil coming from Miami since it's not a center of Portuguese-language media production in the same way it, along with LA and NYC, is for Spanish-language media production.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-13-2024 at 12:17 PM..
That is a really succinct way of putting it, and I tend to agree. But it is still murky and undefined how much leeway we allow in special cases.
And so, again, potentially more cans of worms. Is Baltimore to be lumped with Washington, then? Providence lumped with Boston? Why not lump Philadelphia with NYC, or Milwaukee with Chicago, as very extreme examples? Don't we start creeping into CSA definitions at some point? How far away from a core city can you get, and say you are still functionally tied to the central city? Like, what is the distance cut-off? 60 miles?
And again, I am not trying to equate RSB to any of these cities. RSB developed sort of inorganically as a suburban type of city to the port of Los Angeles. Whereas Baltimore, Providence, etc. were and are very much so standalone cities. There also isn't a wall of continuous sprawl between Baltimore and Washington as there is between LA and RSB either.
What about Durham though?
Also as another poster explained, daisy-chained cities in the Rhine-Ruhr region of Germany do not end up being the most important influential city area of the country, despite their size advantage. It still seems having one core city is, like, somehow part of the influence equation somehow.
So, idk. I am just kind of rambling and ruminating over this. Seems like there is no way to perfectly standardize these types of lists because people will always argue. We must follow the US Census to the T! Or we can deviate, but only for x. Or for x and y, but not for z.
FWIW I do not think Providence should be lumped with Boston, nor Baltimore with Washington. But Durham with Raleigh is a possibility. SJ with SF is a strong possibility. I guess RSB with LA is a strong possibility too.
Ranking RSB by itself (again by importance/influence) is just so wonky, otherwise.
I've started going by urban area comprised of census tracts, going down the list starting from the largest ones and those take in any directly adjacent smaller urban areas that are touching the largest contiguous bloc within the larger urban area, but without an allowance for chaining them one after another. With that, I'll go down your list, but remember that these cities also have very different downtown to downtown distances.
Yes, Baltimore is to be lumped in with DC. Providence with Boston. Philadelphia and NYC have another urban area buffer between them with Trenton which gets tagged on to NYC as the larger urban area compared to Philadelphia. Between Milwaukee and Chicago are Racine and Kenosha urban areas; Racine does not touch Milwaukee so is not included with Milwaukee, but Kenosha does touch Chicago and is included with Chicago. CSAs have obvious faults because they are based on county lines that were generally drawn a long time ago, and especially in the Western states, sometimes irrespective of any topographical boundaries that have effects on human settlement.
There is continuous sprawl between Baltimore and DC as there is with Providence and Boston and they have regional rail services between the two centers.
Rhine Ruhr is interesting in not really being having a particularly significant captive industry within Germany and the larger EU. I think there's an argument for placing in anywhere from 1 to 3 within Germany and heavy industry isn't really doing that well in Germany. Frankfurt Rhein-Main is much smaller, but it's the financial center of Germany and increasingly solidified itself as a, perhaps the, financial center for the EU especially as the ECB is located there. Berlin is the national capital and Germany is still a significant capital and Berlin is also a major cultural production center for the German language and an odd alternative one for a few others, has some major national headquarters, and is a pretty common spot for multinationals from elsewhere to set up a German or EU regional headquarters.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-13-2024 at 12:24 PM..
I've started going by urban area comprised of census tracts, going down the list starting from the largest ones and those take in any directly adjacent smaller urban areas that are touching the largest contiguous bloc within the larger urban area, but without an allowance for chaining them one after another. With that, I'll go down your list, but remember that these cities also have very different downtown to downtown distances.
Yes, Baltimore is to be lumped in with DC. Providence with Boston. Philadelphia and NYC have another urban area buffer between them with Trenton which gets tagged on to NYC as the larger urban area compared to Philadelphia. Between Milwaukee and Chicago are Racine and Kenosha urban areas; Racine does not touch Milwaukee so is not included with Milwaukee, but Kenosha does touch Chicago and is included with Chicago. CSAs have obvious faults because they are based on county lines that were generally drawn a long time ago, and especially in the Western states, sometimes irrespective of any topographical boundaries that have effects on human settlement.
There is continuous sprawl between Baltimore and DC as there is with Providence and Boston and they have regional rail services between the two centers.
Rhine Ruhr is interesting in not really being having a particularly significant captive industry within Germany and the larger EU. I think there's an argument for placing in anywhere from 1 to 3 within Germany and heavy industry isn't really doing that well in Germany. Frankfurt Rhein-Main is much smaller, but it's the financial center of Germany and increasingly solidified itself as a, perhaps the, financial center for the EU especially as the ECB is located there. Berlin is the national capital and Germany is still a significant capital and Berlin is also a major cultural production center for the German language and an odd alternative one for a few others, has some major national headquarters, and is a pretty common spot for multinationals from elsewhere to set up a German or EU regional headquarters.
Did you edit this while I was loading the reply window? I could have sworn that you had said that the Trenton metro (=Mercer County, NJ) should be tacked onto NYC, and I was going to ding you for that.
The reason the Trenton MSA got moved from the Philadelphia CSA to the New York CSA in the 1990s is because of the growth of Princeton (Township, since merged with Princeton Borough) as an employment center. Princeton is about equidistant between NYC and Philadelphia, but it's closer to Middlesex County than it is to Bucks County, and many Middlesex residents took those new jobs, enough to tilt the communting percentages in New York's favor. Otherwise, I would say that Mercer County retains stronger ties with Philadelphia than New York. As I believe I've noted before, New York media outlets don't cover Trenton except to report on the doings of New Jersey state government, while Philadelphia news outlets will report on stories local to Trenton but of beyond-local interest.
Or take a look at the home page of The Trentonian, one of the city's two daily newspapers. If you check it out today (Wednesday, 13 March 2024), you might note that the sports section has more stories about Philadelphia than New York pro teams, including a column devoted just to the Phillies. Then go down to the bottom of the home page, where it lists the periodicals its parent Media News Group owns. The other five* papers listed are all in the Pennsylvania part of the Philadelphia MSA.
*Actually, six: the Patriot Item is the Northern Berks County regional subsidiary of The Reading Eagle.
Disney as in the actual production studios that make the cultural products that are shared globally and make people want to go to one of the Disney parks and the corporate headquarters of the entire conglomerate is based in the Los Angeles area.
Florida does stick out as there is the larger community in the Miami area that also has some of the wealthier bits of the community and in addition to that there's the smaller Orlando community and the even smaller Jacksonville community. Florida as a state including all of these communities has the largest Brazilian community among states. However, by metropolitan area, Boston has more than any single one of those metropolitan areas though some of that gets spread into neighboring Rhode Island which is a different state. This similarly holds for New York City where a lot of the Brazilian community is over state lines in New Jersey but still part of the NYC metropolitan area. The Boston community though generally does not have a lot of the uber-wealthy and so gets a lot less attention even though it's large than any of the ones in Florida.
Portugal and Cabo Verde matter in the context of helping to understand part of why the Brazilian population is so large in the Boston area as the Portuguese-speaking community helped with maintaining and attracting more and more of a population from all three of these places.
Absolutely, Miami has more prominence than any Texan city or Los Angeles among Brazilians. Brazilians though are also a very small community within the US and there's not much particularly targeted towards Brazilians in Brazil coming from Miami since it's not a center of Portuguese-language media production in the same way it, along with LA and NYC, is for Spanish-language media production.
Your first paragraph is sort of… you’re doing your research. You’re looking at raw data, I give you that, but not connecting on the cultural issue.
There was a thread on whether DC is closer to Baltimore or NYC in global stature and I think similarly to that thread, there’s something here also being missed when looking at raw numbers. Though it’s not as obvious here.
The fact you clarify whether I meant Disney as in the Theme Park in Orlando or something else tells me there’s just a bit of lack of familiarity. I’m usually a champion of following the data, but data is up to interpretation and there’s just a lack of interpretation going on here, I think. To put it from your perspective, imagine talking about the impact on Cancun for US citizens - you probably won’t note the the significance of Cancun in the United States if you went solely based on how many Americans live in Cancun, American Headquarters there, etc.
I don’t want to harp and bemoan the subject, Im just stating my rationale for Miami’s (and Orlando & broader Florida) cultural significance and how and why i differs from LA/California/TX.
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