What are the best second tier city's in the south. (comparison, bigger)

[nature's message]

In no order:

New Orleans
Charlotte
San Antonio
Orlando
Nashville
Richmond
Louisville

[kingchef]

[quote=urbancharlotte;9301246]Here are some youtube videos of a tier two downtown.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXcNS57CQkM&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0ff52ee7WE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbi-OLcDZbY&feature=channel

YouTube - urban charlotte

YouTube - urban charlotte

YouTube - urban charlotte

YouTube - Bobcats game night

When I fly out of Charlotte Douglas International Airport (8th busiest airport in the Nation and Top 30 busiest in the World) to one of those tier 1 Southern cities, their downtowns better have tons more going on than the above videos. TONS MORE!!![/quote


love, i'm not ragging your town. charlotte has really developed over the last ten or fifteen years, there is no rational dispute over this fact. however, when considering the overall picture of urban centers, one location possesses all of the amenities that all people in known civilization want. the culture, the name recognition, the history, the physical properties, etc. all of these things are known by, not only most citizens in the united states, but most citizens of the world. a simple example: new york city? ohhhh, yes, yes! charlotte? where? whooo? you see, it isn't meant as a slam, it is just the reality that applies even to many of america's largest metropolitan areas. austin, richmond, nashville, raleigh WHOOO?

population, location, and airports don't, in and of themselves, define tier 1 cities. 5 vehicles on a street, a monarail car w/ some riders in it on a particularly festive night in the year, and an indeterminate small number of people on a public street on the same holiday do nothing to advance a finding contrary to charlotte's classification as a tier 2 city. there is certainly nothing necessarily wrong w/ being proud of your city. nevertheless, when you remove the geocentricity of your view, how do roughly 13 or 14 million new yorkers see those pictures? time square any time during the day, not to mention new year's eve, daily rides on the subway, driving in uptown manhatten. get the picture? now, think of the other clearly defined tier 1 cities like san fransico, las angeles, houston, philadelphia, etc. considering their populations, would they really see those pictures as being bustling? food for thought. i did not mean to upset you or hurt your feelings. i am just trying to put things into perspective. memphis is the busiest cargo airport in the world and the busiest airport in the united states between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. most of the world, i dare say, would ask, WHOOO? very good pictures of a tier 2 city in america on new year's eve. very accurate. anyone agree?

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by kingchef

love, i'm not ragging your town. charlotte has really developed over the last ten or fifteen years, there is no rational dispute over this fact. however, when considering the overall picture of urban centers, one location possesses all of the amenities that all people in known civilization want. the culture, the name recognition, the history, the physical properties, etc. all of these things are known by, not only most citizens in the united states, but most citizens of the world. a simple example: new york city? ohhhh, yes, yes! charlotte? where? whooo? you see, it isn't meant as a slam, it is just the reality that applies even to many of america's largest metropolitan areas. austin, richmond, nashville, raleigh WHOOO?

population, location, and airports don't, in and of themselves, define tier 1 cities. 5 vehicles on a street, a monarail car w/ some riders in it on a particularly festive night in the year, and an indeterminate small number of people on a public street on the same holiday do nothing to advance a finding contrary to charlotte's classification as a tier 2 city. there is certainly nothing necessarily wrong w/ being proud of your city. nevertheless, when you remove the geocentricity of your view, how do roughly 13 or 14 million new yorkers see those pictures? time square any time during the day, not to mention new year's eve, daily rides on the subway, driving in uptown manhatten. get the picture? now, think of the other clearly defined tier 1 cities like san fransico, las angeles, houston, philadelphia, etc. considering their populations, would they really see those pictures as being bustling? food for thought. i did not mean to upset you or hurt your feelings. i am just trying to put things into perspective. memphis is the busiest cargo airport in the world and the busiest airport in the united states between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. most of the world, i dare say, would ask, WHOOO? very good pictures of a tier 2 city in america on new year's eve. very accurate. anyone agree?

Little do you realize, you have just proved my point in your response. With the exception of Houston (the South's largest city by city population I might add) you did not name ANY southern cities LOL!!! You also failed to understand that the downtown areas of ALL tier 1 southern cities do not have NYC level foot traffic. Trust me on this one.

Also, the videos that were labeled "Urban Charlotte" were not special event or New Years traffic. That was a fairly normal night (with the exception of Sunday night which are usually dead).

My point is that it is not wise to judge Southern cities' downtowns by class or size of the city. There are so called tier one cities that have downtowns comparable to MANY tier two cities. Some tier two cities are even more lively than some tier one cities.

In the South, the difference between a tier 1 and tier 2 is suburban sprawl. In the core or downtowns of southern cities, there isn't much difference at the street level. Sure, some have bigger skylines than others, but that has NOTHING to do with a walkable urban feel.

In Charlotte's case, the downtown area is very compact and walkable. Everything is within 7 blocks of each other at the most.

Here are some photos that may help illustrate what I mean












Photos by James Willamor

The last photo shows there are still TONS of surface parking that needs to be filled. In time, it will happen as the downtown area is rapidly growing.

FYI, I do realize that Charlotte is a tier two city. That was not what I was questioning. I just happen to know for a fact that there are tier 1 southern cities that don't have much DOWNTOWN bragging rights over the likes of Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, and San Antonio. That was the point I was trying to make. I do find it funny that you thought my tier two city videos were an attempt to 'advance' Charlotte to tier one status.

I ask you again, show me videos of a tier one southern city with TONS more activity than Uptown Charlotte. I am talking downtown foot traffic, downtown free live music, downtown mass transit, downtown NFL Stadiums, downtown NBA arenas. You know, all those things that tier 2 Charlotte has downtown that tier one southern cities have tons more of. LOL!!! Better yet, show me videos of a tier two southern city's downtown with all of these amenties that Uptown Charlotte has.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

Just for the record, I consider the second tier Southern cities to be Richmond, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Raleigh, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Birmingham, Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, Fort Worth, Louisville, and Oklahoma City. The third tier would include cities like Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Durham, Greenville, Columbia, Charleston, Augusta, Savannah, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Baton Rouge, Little Rock, Jackson, etc.

I would throw Lexington, Kentucky in there too. Macon, Georgia is another possible one. So is Montgomery, Alabama and Charleston, West Virginia.

[Akhenaton06]

For third tier cities, my criterion is a MSA population of 500K-1 million. Lexington fits the bill here, but Macon and Montgomery don't, if I remember correctly. Not sure of Charleston's metro area population.

[urbancharlotte]

This thread shows that the downtowns of tier one and tier two cities are quite comparable in the minds of most folks familiar with them.
Top 25 downtowns in the U.S.

Please note that the OP ranked Nashville, Memphis, and Charlotte's downtowns ahead of Houston and Dallas.

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

This thread shows that the downtowns of tier one and tier two cities are quite comparable in the minds of most folks familiar with them.
Top 25 downtowns in the U.S.

Please note that the OP ranked Nashville, Memphis, and Charlotte's downtowns ahead of Houston and Dallas.

Urban, I think you are correct in that Charlotte is not given enough credit for what it is. It has a very nice and thriving downtown (uptown) area. Ahead of all other tier 2 southern cities with exception of maybe Nashville. Very walkable and accessible.
I do not believe though that the tier 1 southern cities are distinguished from Charlotte because they sprawl more (as you said in an earlier post). Charlotte's amenities are almost entirely concentrated within it's relatively small cbd, while the southern mega-metros have nodes and districts of interest all over the place. Houston, Atlanta, Dallas and Miami are much, much larger in every conceivable way and therefore offer more than just more sprawl. For instance, larger and better arts districts, shopping districts. Live music. Parks. Sports, the vibe and pace is different, among other things..
I love Charlotte but there is a lot more going on in the larger metros to distinguish teir 1 cties from the Charlotte's and Nashville's...

[carolinablue]

Charlotte is gay(ha no pun).
-qc

[imaterry78259]

Originally Posted by nature's message

In no order:

New Orleans
Charlotte
San Antonio
Orlando
Nashville
Richmond
Louisville

New Orleans, San Antonio, Orlando and Charlotte are not second tier cities

NOLA- Best cultured city in the South
San Antonio- The most important military city in the South
Orlando-Best tourist city in the South
Charlotte-The biggest financial center in the South

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by imaterry78259

New Orleans, San Antonio, Orlando and Charlotte are not second tier cities

Didn't somebody somewhere classify 1st tier as metro 5 million plus? Neither New Orleans, San Antonio, Orlando, nor Charlotte are 5 million plus.