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NOT true, I see them all the time. I don't spend much time in Surprise, Chandler, Ahwatukee, Goodyear, etc. but those type of Californians are all over the Central City area. Come downtown, uptown, Melrose, Tempe, Central Scottsdale and you will see more than enough of these type of Californians. Then they get in their WV's and tailgate! LOL, it's just annoying! Yesterday, there were some PETA protesters outside of KFC, LOL! See them all the time at First Fridays and sometimes they gather in front of a restaurant there trying to get people to not eat the sushi...often yelling: "Fish have Feelings too!"
I'm hanging out in Scottsdale at the moment - where in Scottsdale would I go to see this? Sounds interesting! I have NEVER seen a protest by PETA anywhere in the Bay Area, and I'm a foodie, eating out most of the time. I wonder if these are California transplants, or something else ...
What do you mean by "Then they get in their WV's and tailgate!"? WVs? VWs? you mean the old beetles or VW vans?
I'm hanging out in Scottsdale at the moment - where in Scottsdale would I go to see this? Sounds interesting! I have NEVER seen a protest by PETA anywhere in the Bay Area, and I'm a foodie, eating out most of the time. I wonder if these are California transplants, or something else ...
What do you mean by "Then they get in their WV's and tailgate!"? WVs? VWs? you mean the old beetles or VW vans?
I've seen them near Ra...they seem to despise Sushi. Look around Old Town...they like Mill Ave as well, LOL! Being a little facetious about the WV thing but I am stereotyping since I've noticed them primarily in VW's, you know, Volkswagens. Surprised I haven't seen any of them in SmartCars yet. And them being Californians, they like to tailgate, its annoying. This isn't primarily a PETA problem just one with people in cars with California license plates; AND yes you can tell they are Californians because they have the white background and red cursive lettering! They also seem to want to travel 55mph on Central Ave despite it being a 35 zone. I've also seen them run the red arrow light at light rail intersections...not a smart move.
AND you've NEVER seen a PETA protest in the Bay Area??? Really? Seriously? I've only been there a few times and each time I've gone there they are. I've also seen drug "parties" in parks and sex in the streets at things like Folsom, etc. It's gross...
I've seen them near Ra...they seem to despise Sushi. Look around Old Town...they like Mill Ave as well, LOL! Being a little facetious about the WV thing but I am stereotyping since I've noticed them primarily in VW's, you know, Volkswagens. Surprised I haven't seen any of them in SmartCars yet. And them being Californians, they like to tailgate, its annoying. This isn't primarily a PETA problem just one with people in cars with California license plates; AND yes you can tell they are Californians because they have the white background and red cursive lettering! They also seem to want to travel 55mph on Central Ave despite it being a 35 zone. I've also seen them run the red arrow light at light rail intersections...not a smart move.
I'll have to pay more attention to license plates while driving ... my biggest observation so far is the number of people here (In AZ-licensed cars) talking on cell phones and paying very little attention to traffic - wavering around, etc. I'm scared I'm going to get rear-ended by some distracted driver sooner or later. Other than that, though - driving here seems pretty reasonable and no different from the Bay Area.
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Originally Posted by fcorrales80
AND you've NEVER seen a PETA protest in the Bay Area??? Really? Seriously? I've only been there a few times and each time I've gone there they are. I've also seen drug "parties" in parks and sex in the streets at things like Folsom, etc. It's gross...
You have to remember, I live in the suburbs and only go into SF for - work; a specific event or party; to show visitors around. I know my way around and would never dream of going through the Haight, or near 'Folsom' (street, south of Market, where they have an annual, wild gay party I presume is what you are referring to) or near various 'parks'. I saw a 'special' about SF on Fox news (I watch it for humor once in a while) and it showed people doing drugs, and implied the streets were full of sex and drugs. There are areas where you can see drugs, and sex, and other things - but they are not areas I have any need or desire to visit (I found myself driving on Grand Avenue in Phoenix by mistake - I would never want to go back there either!). You can spend time in the Financial district, Chinatown, the Marina, Pacific Heights, in the Golden Gate park, the Presidio, etc - all places I go to often - and NEVER see anything unusual.
Protesting sushi is ridiculous and very Bush League; I think there must be some local weirdos getting into that! Protesting KFC - well, we should protest KFC but not for the animals, but for the humans who consume it ! And of course I'm just kidding - I indulge once in a blue moon myself.
I'll have to pay more attention to license plates while driving ... my biggest observation so far is the number of people here (In AZ-licensed cars) talking on cell phones and paying very little attention to traffic - wavering around, etc. I'm scared I'm going to get rear-ended by some distracted driver sooner or later. Other than that, though - driving here seems pretty reasonable and no different from the Bay Area.
I'm sure not every Californian is a horrible driver. I lived in L.A. for four years so I know it isn't a demolition derby on the freeways but more like bumper cars, LOL! Also, Phoenix was ranked as the safest big city to drive in with far less accidents compared to the 10 largest U.S. cities. So, I think that speaks volumes.
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You have to remember, I live in the suburbs and only go into SF for - work; a specific event or party; to show visitors around. I know my way around and would never dream of going through the Haight, or near 'Folsom' (street, south of Market, where they have an annual, wild gay party I presume is what you are referring to) or near various 'parks'. I saw a 'special' about SF on Fox news (I watch it for humor once in a while) and it showed people doing drugs, and implied the streets were full of sex and drugs. There are areas where you can see drugs, and sex, and other things - but they are not areas I have any need or desire to visit (I found myself driving on Grand Avenue in Phoenix by mistake - I would never want to go back there either!). You can spend time in the Financial district, Chinatown, the Marina, Pacific Heights, in the Golden Gate park, the Presidio, etc - all places I go to often - and NEVER see anything unusual.
Protesting sushi is ridiculous and very Bush League; I think there must be some local weirdos getting into that! Protesting KFC - well, we should protest KFC but not for the animals, but for the humans who consume it ! And of course I'm just kidding - I indulge once in a blue moon myself.
I saw some of this at the Folsum St Fair, but it wasn't just gay people having sex on the street. I've seen it on the subway, near the Bay Bridge, etc. Most neighborhoods outside of the "weird" areas of town do it for effect and risk getting "caught" but I think its just the vibe of SF that makes it more common. I have never seen anything like it in L.A., Paris, London, New York, etc. it just seems to be an SF thing. I've been to the other neighborhoods and it wasn't there but nonetheless, it was San Francisco. There is nothing like it on Grand Ave. as Grand is primarily an industrial, rail road laden area and not where people live until you get past downtown Glendale and into Surprise and Sun City where it becomes VERY suburban and new. SF is just weird, the Amsterdam of the U.S. but even more promiscuous in a raunchy way. Anyway, this is about Dallas and Phoenix, and in that sense Phoenix NOR Dallas is comparable to the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Bay Area.
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Most neighborhoods outside of the "weird" areas of town do it for effect and risk getting "caught" but I think its just the vibe of SF that makes it more common.
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There is nothing like it on Grand Ave. as Grand is primarily an industrial, rail road laden area and not where people live ...
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SF is just weird, the Amsterdam of the U.S. but even more promiscuous in a raunchy way. Anyway, this is about Dallas and Phoenix, and in that sense Phoenix NOR Dallas is comparable to the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Bay Area.
Well, you've been there and seen this, so I have to respect your observation. I lived in the city itself (even in the Castro for a while) for 12 years, and then 25 miles out in the 'burbs' for another 13 years (but still worked on Market St) and never once saw open sex; maybe I'm just not looking ! And where I live now in the East Bay is more like Scottsdale than SF.
My reference to Grand Ave was simply to a place that is unattractive / unsafe, but also a place you have no need to ever go to; there are 'bad' places in SF but you don't need to go to them. There are many beautiful, drop-dead gorgeous parts of the city that are what make it so special, and I can assure you, you don't see sex/drugs in these areas.
I simply don't want people to think that if you go to SF, you are going to be overwhelmed by sex and drugs on the streets! If you want to complain about something valid in SF, complain about the homeless situation - THAT is a real problem there, one that I'm losing faith in the city's ability to deal with.
But anyway, enough of these backwater places - back to the battle of Titans - Dallas and Phoenix !
Well, you've been there and seen this, so I have to respect your observation. I lived in the city itself (even in the Castro for a while) for 12 years, and then 25 miles out in the 'burbs' for another 13 years (but still worked on Market St) and never once saw open sex; maybe I'm just not looking ! And where I live now in the East Bay is more like Scottsdale than SF.
My reference to Grand Ave was simply to a place that is unattractive / unsafe, but also a place you have no need to ever go to; there are 'bad' places in SF but you don't need to go to them. There are many beautiful, drop-dead gorgeous parts of the city that are what make it so special, and I can assure you, you don't see sex/drugs in these areas.
I simply don't want people to think that if you go to SF, you are going to be overwhelmed by sex and drugs on the streets! If you want to complain about something valid in SF, complain about the homeless situation - THAT is a real problem there, one that I'm losing faith in the city's ability to deal with.
But anyway, enough of these backwater places - back to the battle of Titans - Dallas and Phoenix !
True, but like Phoenix and even Dallas are dealing with sprawl (true for the Bay Area also) sex, drugs, and prostitution are HUGE, HUGE in San Fran and are up there with the homeless situation and out of control rent and real estate. The reason I saw this behavior is because, as many gay men do,I traveled to experience a Pride Event and other such gatherings in a different city. I've been to events in many countries and dozens of cities in the U.S. and only in SF did public sex prevail in both the gay and straight communities.
It doesn't dominant the ENTIRE city, of course, but it was there and VERY open. One doesn't have to look for it as it finds you. I am very liberal and have a partner but I don't want to have sex with him on the street where people can and do record and where young people and everyone else can see. That's just indecent. San Fran has beautiful parts and architecture but the culture of the city seems of the type that grows at the bottom of a petri dish. I KNOW there are nice suburbs there hell, Detroit has some nice suburbs, but as the central cities go there is no comparison to the filth. Plus we are talking about core cities here like Phoenix and Dallas and as some wanted to make comparisons to San Fran, here you go... Just google Folsum and see what pops up...
Also the "culture" of this fair permeates other events in the city. This is a daytime, open air event that goes all day and night. If you think that it stops when the event is over you'd be very wrong. Trust me, I've been to events, parades, and prides and that includes Dallas and Phoenix; heck I was even a "model" in the Phoenix parade and had a nice pair of Brazilian swim-shorts on but both Dallas and Phoenix lacked the raunch. However, I went once and DO NOT need to go again so I will stop complaining about SF. But notice, I will not go onto the San Fran/Bay Area/whatever forum and degrade the residents and do what people from there and other cities do on the Phoenix forum. But it was brought up...wasn't going to say anything but sometimes the Phx bashing gets dumb and out of control, so I weight-in.
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The reason I saw this behavior is because, as many gay men do,I traveled to experience a Pride Event and other such gatherings in a different city. I've been to events in many countries and dozens of cities in the U.S. and only in SF did public sex prevail in both the gay and straight communities. ...
Well, maybe we are getting to the core of the issue here !
There are a few events in the city where the whole city goes nuts - gay pride is one; the 'bay to breakers' race is another (there was a huge effort to crack down on 'nudity' this last year). Folsom St. Fair is another. Halloween is another. I would say, all bets are off in terms of what you see in the city on those days, 'anywhere' in the city (certainly, anywhere on/near public transit, etc). So maybe this gives a false impression of the city; if you only come to SF for these events, then yes, maybe you could think of it as "Sodom and Gomorrah". I avoid the city like the plague on those days, because of traffic, so have no idea what goes on (but can imagine the worst!). All I can tell you is, for about 360 days of the year, the city is a pretty boring place where you won't see public nudity and the focus would be on appreciating the Transamerica Tower, or dim sum in Chinatown, or a ferry ride to Sausalito ... that's the city I've known for 25+ years!
PS I was in Vancouver, BC at the time of their 'Pride' event last year and it was pretty wild. I remember smelling a whole lot of dope, too!
Well, maybe we are getting to the core of the issue here !
There are a few events in the city where the whole city goes nuts - gay pride is one; the 'bay to breakers' race is another (there was a huge effort to crack down on 'nudity' this last year). Folsom St. Fair is another. Halloween is another. I would say, all bets are off in terms of what you see in the city on those days, 'anywhere' in the city (certainly, anywhere on/near public transit, etc). So maybe this gives a false impression of the city; if you only come to SF for these events, then yes, maybe you could think of it as "Sodom and Gomorrah". I avoid the city like the plague on those days, because of traffic, so have no idea what goes on (but can imagine the worst!). All I can tell you is, for about 360 days of the year, the city is a pretty boring place where you won't see public nudity and the focus would be on appreciating the Transamerica Tower, or dim sum in Chinatown, or a ferry ride to Sausalito ... that's the city I've known for 25+ years!
PS I was in Vancouver, BC at the time of their 'Pride' event last year and it was pretty wild. I remember smelling a whole lot of dope, too!
Well, I think pot is legal in Canada in certain quantities. I've been to Vancouver for pride and it is nothing like SF. I'm sure there are some quaint qualities of SF, but let's not try to say the city is a cute,sleepy village like that most of the year. That would be like saying there isn't always Sprawl in Phoenix. But any how, I'm sure everyone gets the idea.
Take a look at this page, and scroll down; they have red/blue maps based on voting results, not land area. I don't know if there is one for Texas alone, though ...
Interesting graphs, thanks for the link... they still rely on land area, though. The weighted maps distort the state to make it bigger or smaller depending on it's population... hence California and NY get very fat, Texas gets slightly smaller, etc. But it still colors them as entirely red or blue depending on which way they went (even if it was 51% republican, 49% dem). The other population weighted graph uses counties, which is a little better, however it still relies on land area (and some Texas counties are bigger than other states) and the fact that the county is either entirely red or blue regardless of the winning percentage. What I am looking for is a state-by-state graph which "fills" up the state with a percentage of red or blue based on total vote for each, not 100% red or blue based on who won. That graph would have Texas filled in at approximately 55% red and 44% blue.
Interesting graphs, thanks for the link... they still rely on land area, though. The weighted maps distort the state to make it bigger or smaller depending on it's population... hence California and NY get very fat, Texas gets slightly smaller, etc. But it still colors them as entirely red or blue depending on which way they went (even if it was 51% republican, 49% dem). The other population weighted graph uses counties, which is a little better, however it still relies on land area (and some Texas counties are bigger than other states) and the fact that the county is either entirely red or blue regardless of the winning percentage. What I am looking for is a state-by-state graph which "fills" up the state with a percentage of red or blue based on total vote for each, not 100% red or blue based on who won. That graph would have Texas filled in at approximately 55% red and 44% blue.
This is done with the color of purple or the blending of the blue and the red to indicate which counties are actually leaning more blue or are swing states. The reason you still see more red in Texas as opposed to Arizona, Colorado and even Georgia is because Texas is still more solidly red even near the metro areas. The counties aren't entirely red or blue in the graphics that represent the % of swing voters or splits. Texas is still a very red and conservative state whereas Arizona is far more purple and with more shades of blue DESPITE McCain being an Arizonan and VERY popular in his home state across all party lines here in Arizona. This is an indication that Arizona is much more blue, hence socially liberal than any Texas city, county, or as a whole. Texas is more 70% red and 30% blue as a whole. Metro areas vary from 70% red to 60% red, but nonetheless, the majority of metro areas are red. This was discussed and proved earlier in this thread if you actually read all the posts. Very few Texas counties are bigger than very few states like, Rhode Island, Connecticut, etc. Here maybe this will help:
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LOL, it's just annoying! 
Yesterday, there were some PETA protesters outside of KFC, LOL! See them all the time at First Fridays and sometimes they gather in front of a restaurant there trying to get people to not eat the sushi...often yelling: "Fish have Feelings too!"
Being a little facetious about the WV thing but I am stereotyping since I've noticed them primarily in VW's, you know, Volkswagens. Surprised I haven't seen any of them in SmartCars yet. And them being Californians, they like to tailgate, its annoying. This isn't primarily a PETA problem just one with people in cars with California license plates; AND yes you can tell they are Californians because they have the white background and red cursive lettering! 
They also seem to want to travel 55mph on Central Ave despite it being a 35 zone. I've also seen them run the red arrow light at light rail intersections...not a smart move.
And of course I'm just kidding - I indulge once in a blue moon myself.
