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It's funny how these state threads (at least for coastal states) seem to constantly devolve into comparisons of beaches. Frankly, I'm more of a mountain/countryside person myself, but here's my take:
As I've always, said Mass. (and New England generally) has the oceanside charm down to a science. Very quaint and charming villages and lovely, generally undeveloped vistas make places like Cape Cod appealing for peaceful getaways.
But as MarketStEl alluded to, the Jersey Shore is simply more active with an authentic boardwalk scene, much more cohesive "beach town" feel, and generally much more practical for widespread and comfortable use (read: very few rocks).
I really like both for very different and interesting experiences, so toss up for me.
Outside of beaches, while I prefer the more temperate climate and somewhat lusher and "rolling hill" feeling of the mid-Atlantic (yes, believe it or not, NJ has some lovely countryside), Mass. simply feels more balanced overall, with better planned/fewer "hectic" areas, many cities/towns with remarkably preserved history and underrated vibrance, and a social atmosphere that is generally less materialistic and cutthroat than New Jersey (that seems to be the result of the heavy NYC influence on the state).
I agree with a lot of your points, however, I do have to disagree with your transportation piece. The MBTA (Green Line, Red Line, Blue Line, Orange Line, Silver Line, Commuter Rail, Ferry System, Massport Shuttles) are far superior to the NJ Transit/PATH. I use to pend a lot of time in both Bergen and Middlesex Counties. Ive transferred through Hoboken, Seacaucus and have even taken the NJ Transit to Penn. In all fairness, NJ Transit seemed to run at lower frequency, be consistently late and did not serve the needs of most Northern NJyers as much as the MBTA serves M^ssholes. I personally love the MBTA and its system serves exactly where you would need to go in Boston.
However, the MBTA will soon have a clear margin over the NJ Transit system with all the upgrades and service improvements it is receiving. The Green Line is extending through Cambridge, Somerville and up to Medford linking Union Square and Tufts University, the Commuter Rail is expanding to Fall River and New Bedford and the MBTA is currently studying a plethora of expansion ideas. They also are replacing all Red, Orange, and Green line cars by 2023. The commuter Rail is also supposively going under a huge redo to become electric, and easily transferrable. MBTA is striving to make their system crazy better... and I have to say they are doing a good job.
In all, Ive had much better experiences with the MBTA over NJ Transit. I feel the MBTA has better service, is at very good frequency, and since the new Boston building boom is finding ways to better serve its population. And overall I can rely much more on the MBTA
I actually can't take issue with your main points, especially regarding quality of service. On top of that, a dear friend of mine has spent the last year reporting for The Record in North Jersey on how badly NJ Transit has let its operations and maintenance slip over the span of about a decade, in part because former Gov. Chris Christie replaced many top managers who knew how to run a railroad with politically connected cronies.
But you've also inadvertently reinforced the historic East Jersey/West Jersey (now North Jersey/South Jersey) split, which South (West) Jerseyites tend to resent because they perceive Trenton - which sits astride the dividing line but has historically been more closely connected culturally with the "Philadelphia" part of New Jersey than the "New York" part - as favoring the north over the south.
The recent shutdown of the one NJ Transit regional rail line in South Jersey, which was done in part to speed up installation of PTC and in part because there's a shortage of equipment and operating personnel, was framed in those terms south of I-195.
And, of course, your characterization completely omits the PATCO Speedline, which is arguably the best rail transit line in the entire state, and the River Line light rail, which was built as a sop to South Jersey after the pols there complained about all the money NJT was spending to expand light rail up north. But those are in the more recently and less densely urbanized Philadelphia suburbs in NJ.
Those highway coaches, however, operate in both parts of the state. Up north, they're largely run by private operators under agreement with NJ Transit and provide local commuter service in the North Jersey 'burbs; down south, they provide longer-distance service from Philadelphia to the Jersey shore and some destinations in Mercer, Burlington, Gloucester, Salem and Cumberland counties.
I do think, however, that the statewide nature of NJ Transit does make it somewhat different from the MBTA, which serves only Massachusetts' principal metropolis.
It's funny how these state threads (at least for coastal states) seem to constantly devolve into comparisons of beaches. Frankly, I'm more of a mountain/countryside person myself, but here's my take:
As I've always, said Mass. (and New England generally) has the oceanside charm down to a science. Very quaint and charming villages and lovely, generally undeveloped vistas make places like Cape Cod appealing for peaceful getaways.
But as MarketStEl alluded to, the Jersey Shore is simply more active with an authentic boardwalk scene, much more cohesive "beach town" feel, and generally much more practical for widespread and comfortable use (read: very few rocks).
I really like both for very different and interesting experiences, so toss up for me.
Outside of beaches, while I prefer the more temperate climate and somewhat lusher and "rolling hill" feeling of the mid-Atlantic (yes, believe it or not, NJ has some lovely countryside), Mass. simply feels more balanced overall, with better planned/fewer "hectic" areas, many cities/towns with remarkably preserved history and underrated vibrance, and a social atmosphere that is generally less materialistic and cutthroat than New Jersey (that seems to be the result of the heavy NYC influence on the state).
So the Jersey Shore is Authentic and Massachusetts beaches aren't?
So the Jersey Shore is Authentic and Massachusetts beaches aren't?
And Massachusetts doesn't have rolling hills?
Not quite what I said. I said authentic boardwalk scene in New Jersey. Nothing inauthentic about MA beaches at all--just different.
Mass. certainly has rolling hills (moreso "out west") but there's actually more of a pastoral vibe in more of NJ that you actually don't see as much in this neck of the woods. Mass. is much more heavily dominated by that rustic "in the woods" feel, which, while certainly pleasant, is just different.
Not quite what I said. I said authentic boardwalk scene in New Jersey. Nothing inauthentic about MA beaches at all--just different.
Mass. certainly has rolling hills (moreso "out west") but there's actually more of a pastoral vibe in more of NJ that you actually don't see as much in this neck of the woods. Mass. is much more heavily dominated by that rustic "in the woods" feel, which, while certainly pleasant, is just different.
What??
Blue Hill Reservation is right Boston/Milton/Quincy
Serious question, as idk the extent of MBTA's commuter lines. From what I can see, only the easter half of the state of MA and RI is served by MBTA. But does that really encompass as much of MA as NJT covers in NJ?
A very large portion of the urbanized areas of North Jersey are served by commuter rail to Newark/Hoboken/NY Penn, and any area that's not usually has coach bus service to Manhattan and/or regular bus service to both PABT Midtown and GWB. The commuter rails go down to the Shore as well--as far south as the Point Pleasant area which is around 60 miles away from Manhattan. From Manhattan to Trenton is about 60 miles as well. The NJT line from AC to Philly is also about 60 miles long. The line to Port Jervis, NY goes to NY...obviously...which is 70 miles away from Manhattan and passes through much of the northern reaches of NJ.
My point in highlighting that is that I'm honestly not sure how fare MBTA goes out. Does it cover such an extensive region like NJT does?
I will say, though, that if PATH was bigger, it would be better than the MBTA subway lines. MBTA wins just for having more coverage on its rapid transit. But PATH runs 24/7 and uses more cars.
As for the states as a whole, MA wins for just stuff within its borders if NJ can't consider its proximity to Philly and NYC. JC and Hoboken, while great cities, can't compare to Boston because they just were never meant to. For public schools, I'd say tie. For suburbs, tie. For beaches, NJ because the coastline is more usable and the boardwalk scene is fun and what I prefer in a beach vacation.
For me personally, it's NJ because I live in JC 10 minutes from Manhattan and I like NYC more than Boston. And I like the Shore's amenities.
Blue Hill Reservation is right Boston/Milton/Quincy
Certainly never claimed that the Boston area is completely devoid of hilly landscape. Obviously that's not true. But I think I'm more referring to the Piedmont landscape found in New Jersey, in which hilliness is at least more apparent:
This is opposed to what is considered largely "coastal lowlands" in the Eastern MA/Metro Boston (although NJ is basically half coastal plain itself, much of South Jersey still has a nice pastoral feel):
Not MBTA, but Springfield does have the Hartford Line coming up from Connecticut and MA is going to extend limited services up north past Springfield a few stop. Meanwhile, there may be a seasonal train coming in to Pittsfield from NYC via Albany.
There’s also talk of extending MBTA past Worcester to Springfield and potentially Pittsfield, but that’s a much longer shot.
Certainly never claimed that the Boston area is completely devoid of hilly landscape. Obviously that's not true. But I think I'm more referring to the Piedmont landscape found in New Jersey, in which hilliness is at least more apparent:
This is opposed to what is considered largely "coastal lowlands" in the Eastern MA/Metro Boston (although NJ is basically half coastal plain itself, much of South Jersey still has a nice pastoral feel):
Serious question, as idk the extent of MBTA's commuter lines. From what I can see, only the easter half of the state of MA and RI is served by MBTA. But does that really encompass as much of MA as NJT covers in NJ?
A very large portion of the urbanized areas of North Jersey are served by commuter rail to Newark/Hoboken/NY Penn, and any area that's not usually has coach bus service to Manhattan and/or regular bus service to both PABT Midtown and GWB. The commuter rails go down to the Shore as well--as far south as the Point Pleasant area which is around 60 miles away from Manhattan. From Manhattan to Trenton is about 60 miles as well. The NJT line from AC to Philly is also about 60 miles long. The line to Port Jervis, NY goes to NY...obviously...which is 70 miles away from Manhattan and passes through much of the northern reaches of NJ.
My point in highlighting that is that I'm honestly not sure how fare MBTA goes out. Does it cover such an extensive region like NJT does?
I will say, though, that if PATH was bigger, it would be better than the MBTA subway lines. MBTA wins just for having more coverage on its rapid transit. But PATH runs 24/7 and uses more cars.
As for the states as a whole, MA wins for just stuff within its borders if NJ can't consider its proximity to Philly and NYC. JC and Hoboken, while great cities, can't compare to Boston because they just were never meant to. For public schools, I'd say tie. For suburbs, tie. For beaches, NJ because the coastline is more usable and the boardwalk scene is fun and what I prefer in a beach vacation.
For me personally, it's NJ because I live in JC 10 minutes from Manhattan and I like NYC more than Boston. And I like the Shore's amenities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Not MBTA, but Springfield does have the Hartford Line coming up from Connecticut and MA is going to extend limited services up north past Springfield a few stop. Meanwhile, there may be a seasonal train coming in to Pittsfield from NYC via Albany.
There’s also talk of extending MBTA past Worcester to Springfield and potentially Pittsfield, but that’s a much longer shot.
One of the big differences between Massachusetts and New Jersey is this:
Massachusetts contains New England's largest metropolis within its borders.
New Jersey is bordered by the largest metropolis in the nation on one side and the third-largest in the Northeast (Baltimore/Washington being #2 by a narrow margin) on the other. 'Twas ever thus, by the way: Ben Franklin referred to the state as "a keg tapped at both ends", and Princeton University is where it is because the Presbyteries of New York and Philadelphia both wanted to establish a college in the 1740s and decided to go in together on a single college located halfway between the two cities.
Thus New Jersey, like Connecticut, is compact and very densely populated (the most densely populated state in the nation, having taken that title from Rhode Island a few decades back), with no one dominant metropolis but lots of residents traveling outside its borders. A single statewide transit system that provides lots of service to the two big cities just outside it makes more than a little sense, then. Massachusetts did not urbanize in the same fashion, and its mass transit systems reflect that.
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