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Well yeah, I know that. Assuming you are agreeing with me. . As far as 90s/2000s goes. Most of that happened in the 2000s and late 2000's at least all the dev on roosevelt road, and many things are still opening up in the 2010's that are still being built this way in Chicago. Roosevelt / North Ave and Clybourn all continue to grow in the big box, massive parking lot form style. Even older development were like this it seems, such as the Kmart/Jewel Osco on Ashland. There are like 2-3 of these on Ashland, along with Whole Foods/Petco. Ashland isn't as bad as North ave/Clybourn/Roosevelt Road though. If you go further out there is a lot of big box store stuff on Western also. I'm a believer in supply/demand... and the reason you see these going up in Chicago is there is still a large demand. Go to these places on a weekend and the parking lots will be slam packed and on the lots that aren't huge, you will need to circle around to find a spot especially if at Whole Foods... these places are traffic nightmares around North/Clybourn/Roosevelt and cause major congestion, not just eyesores.
Well yeah, I know that. Assuming you are agreeing with me. . As far as 90s/2000s goes. Most of that happened in the 2000s and late 2000's at least all the dev on roosevelt road, and many things are still opening up in the 2010's that are still being built this way in Chicago. Roosevelt / North Ave and Clybourn all continue to grow in the big box, massive parking lot form style. Even older development were like this it seems, such as the Kmart/Jewel Osco on Ashland. There are like 2-3 of these on Ashland, along with Whole Foods/Petco. Ashland isn't as bad as North ave/Clybourn/Roosevelt Road though. If you go further out there is a lot of big box store stuff on Western also. I'm a believer in supply/demand... and the reason you see these going up in Chicago is there is still a large demand. Go to these places on a weekend and the parking lots will be slam packed and on the lots that aren't huge, you will need to circle around to find a spot especially if at Whole Foods... these places are traffic nightmares around North/Clybourn/Roosevelt and cause major congestion, not just eyesores.
The River North area to me is an epic fail in terms of maximizing potential. However, the character of that area as big-box friendly also had to do with the retailers (who the city is most definitely trying to lure) themselves. Many retailers pretty much demand surface parking/suburban-esque layouts because they believe that these will maximize profits. Even if urbanists like those on this site want pedestrian friendly development, the vast majority of Americans and retailers are perfectly fine with crate and barrel having a ginormous parking lot and limited pedestrian access.
Of which, I posted several already. That Home Depot is on North Ave, continue down and a big area is like that. Same with Clybourn. The other Jewel was on Ashland.
Here is new style development with surface level parking lot and parking garage. It was opened in 2007 I believe. In the view you can see Chicago's industrial bones/train network that goes straight into downtown. Similar smaller train tracks run straight through Grant Park. https://www.google.com/maps?q=roosev...332.91,,0,-1.5
Dominicks and Train yard off roosevelt road aerial. Roosevelt is the official border of the loop area going south. IMO, it is completely broken at this point, a disaster really, but not sure how to fix it. There is no dev going south/southwest that is cohesive at all. After that it might as well be suburbs. I won't even address the south and southwest sides. they aren't in the discussion really. https://www.google.com/maps?q=roosev...evelt&t=h&z=18
Of which, I posted several already. That Home Depot is on North Ave, continue down and a big area is like that. Same with Clybourn. The other Jewel was on Ashland.
My bad. Missed your earlier post. Thanks for posting again though.
My bad. Missed your earlier post. Thanks for posting again though.
No problem. I added more. I didn't notice areas like this around DC so close to DT, but maybe they exist.
Again, if taken as a whole, Chicago definitely has more urban *stuff* and more neighborhoods to choose from to live in. However, they are broken up. DC is smaller, but what it does has seems more cohesive to me with less breaks. I think most of us would want Chicago not to have them and fill in. And most of us want DC to get even bigger with their continuing construction also to make them both better cities. The problem is, Chicago still seems to be going towards this big box style development in both it's retail and new condo development in prime areas when it is doing infill. DC is building differently, at least as far as I can tell. There are still quite a bit of infill in DC but these tend to be much smaller lots, i.e. one building, not gigantic areas. From about 2006-2009 there were lots of construction cranes in Chicago and they put up a lot of stuff in the South Loop. But driving around DC, it seems like the entire freaking city is under construction and these areas are being filled in with more urban form places. I believe I went in what was a newer Safeway to pick up some groceries while staying there but it had no surface parking lot and this was in NE DC a good ways outside of DT area. I suppose kind of built like the Dominick's in the West Loop.
I may be wrong... but most of DT DC peremiter areas tends to look like this. And I picked a pretty retail lacking gov area...It certainly isn't a *hot* area, but the urban form including the new construction will have a certain aesthetic.
Chicago as I showed goes straight from Skyscraper canyons into suburbanesque big box stores as the retail areas right outside of DT, and within that area, many new condo developments come with side surface parking lots. There is a one block/two block with gaps area of high rise going down the lake, and the rest of development is 3-4 story buildings flats or courtyards mixed in with SFH's often randomly. Retail corridors between neighborhoods like Ashland, Roosevelt, Clybourn, North Ave are littered with suburban style big box stores.
Of which, I posted several already. That Home Depot is on North Ave, continue down and a big area is like that. Same with Clybourn. The other Jewel was on Ashland.
Here is new style development with surface level parking lot and parking garage. It was opened in 2007 I believe. In the view you can see Chicago's industrial bones/train network that goes straight into downtown. Similar smaller train tracks run straight through Grant Park. https://www.google.com/maps?q=roosev...332.91,,0,-1.5
Dominicks and Train yard off roosevelt road aerial. Roosevelt is the official border of the loop area going south. IMO, it is completely broken at this point, a disaster really, but not sure how to fix it. There is no dev going south/southwest that is cohesive at all. After that it might as well be suburbs. I won't even address the south and southwest sides. they aren't in the discussion really. https://www.google.com/maps?q=roosev...evelt&t=h&z=18
The whole area is like that, that is only a few stores.
Does DC have areas like this that close to DT that break up the urban framework?
No, D.C. because of height limits is pretty much built out for miles. The few parking lots left are pretty much 100% spoken for and development is moving on all of them now. In 2013, we are getting to the point where the only place left to build is across the river in S.E. which is also moving at a pretty fast pace right now.
Does DC have areas like this that close to DT that break up the urban framework?
Some. If you're driving north on North Capitol Street (named such because it intersects with the U.S. Capitol Building), it can get grim pretty quickly.
These lots were used for Megabus. Now they're used for daytime parking (and serve as refuges for the homeless).
This area is kind of garbage-y as well. That crane you see in the streetview is the site of the new Walmart. But it's supposed to be this urban-type, mixed-use development Walmart. The residential building actually looks pretty good, imo.
The general area around Judiciary Square is probably the worst area of Central DC (though Walkscore considers it one of the city's most walkable areas...even more walkable than U Street, Adams-Morgan, Columbia Heights and Georgetown) . Then you still have a couple of patches nearby that are a bit sketch, but have improved a bit with recent condo construction.
Chicago as I showed goes straight from Skyscraper canyons into suburbanesque big box stores as the retail areas right outside of DT, and within that area, many new condo developments come with side surface parking lots. There is a one block/two block with gaps area of high rise going down the lake, and the rest of development is 3-4 story buildings flats or courtyards mixed in with SFH's often randomly. Retail corridors between neighborhoods like Ashland, Roosevelt, Clybourn, North Ave are littered with suburban style big box stores.
This is the big weakness with Chicago. It's a world-class city, but it has kind of an urban-island effect, where there's a small area of good urbanity surrounded by too much auto-oriented crap.
DC has less urbanity than Chicago, but probably better urbanity, at least from a qualitative, seamless standpoint.
This is the big weakness with Chicago. It's a world-class city, but it has kind of an urban-island effect, where there's a small area of good urbanity surrounded by too much auto-oriented crap.
DC has less urbanity than Chicago, but probably better urbanity, at least from a qualitative, seamless standpoint.
Agreed. You could say the same about San Francisco. I don't know Boston as well, I think it might be a smaller cohesive footprint so maybe not in the discussion, and for another thread.
Agreed. You could say the same about San Francisco. I don't know Boston as well, I think it might be a smaller cohesive footprint so maybe not in the discussion, and for another thread.
You think SF has an "urban island effect?"
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As far as 90s/2000s goes. Most of that happened in the 2000s and late 2000's at least all the dev on roosevelt road, and many things are still opening up in the 2010's that are still being built this way in Chicago. Roosevelt / North Ave and Clybourn all continue to grow in the big box, massive parking lot form style. Even older development were like this it seems, such as the Kmart/Jewel Osco on Ashland. There are like 2-3 of these on Ashland, along with Whole Foods/Petco. Ashland isn't as bad as North ave/Clybourn/Roosevelt Road though. If you go further out there is a lot of big box store stuff on Western also. I'm a believer in supply/demand... and the reason you see these going up in Chicago is there is still a large demand. Go to these places on a weekend and the parking lots will be slam packed and on the lots that aren't huge, you will need to circle around to find a spot especially if at Whole Foods... these places are traffic nightmares around North/Clybourn/Roosevelt and cause major congestion, not just eyesores.
But it's supposed to be this urban-type, mixed-use development Walmart. The residential building actually looks pretty good, imo.
