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Tier I will probably always be the top four southern cities, at least for the foreseeable future. The big thing is the hierarchy, and I didn't use to feel this way, but Houston just has such a much larger economy and population than the others, you have to default to it as #1 (I consider Dallas' "true" population to be its MD, so I dont think, nor have I ever heard anyone else, honestly believe Dallas is a bigger city than Houston). The fact that Houston also has massive cultural contributions to America, someone would have to sell me on how it isn't #1...
Atlanta has a healthier economy than Miami, and honestly I think you can make the argument Dallas belongs in front of Miami too...
I think the '10s saw meteoric rises from the likes of Charlotte, Austin, Orlando, and Nashville. It's hard to argue against Charlotte as the South's #5 city. It's a legitimate Top 20 American city now, and I think while that was debatable a decade ago, it's much less debatable now. I think it's clearly of the same tier as these other cities, but I do think there is a clear separation it has on them all...
I think the combo of Richmond, Raleigh, and Jacksonville are separating in that next tier, that a decade ago probably saw New Orleans as the clear leader, and in the coming decade we could see these three cities separate into a tier of their own; they are that close. It's fairly simple to see the separation both Rich and Raleigh have on Memphis, for example, a gap that wasn't there a decade ago, but a gap that idnt yet enough to place them in separate tiers...
And being a Virginian, it's easy to see the significant gap between Rich and Virginia Beach...
Tier IV, I can make an argument that BR and Tulsa aren't quite in the same category as VB and Birmingham, but I think we're well past the point that Birmingham can be seen as an honest peer to cities like Raleigh and Richmond and OKC, and I think there us a near consensus that Birmingham has always lagged behind Memphis and New Orleans of southern legacy cities...
The bottom tier I think is a cluster of Carolina cities plus Knoxville...
This is a pretty spot-on analysis of the tiers. I agree.
Of the Tier 1, Miami is definitely 4th in that group. Miami's salaries are very very low for its size, and there is less business/corporate functions there as compared to Dallas, Houston and Atlanta. Tons of vacation part-time residents, as well as retirees. Add in hospitality/tourism as well as Caribbean and Latin American influenced jobs, and the pay is low overall.
Where would you put Lexington, Chattanooga and Savannah/Columbus/Macon cities?
Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. I guess he meant that the city doesn't stand out in the way he likes. ATL being seen as boring is new to me.
Atlanta doesn't have a 6th Street or Broadway that's appealing to alcoholic Brads and Beckys (or at least not since Buckhead 20 years ago) or a hipster tech monoculture that's favored by Bay Area whites looking to flee California.
Atlanta doesn't have a 6th Street or Broadway that's appealing to alcoholic Brads and Beckys (or at least not since Buckhead 20 years ago) or a hipster tech monoculture that's favored by Bay Area whites looking to flee California.
I think Winston is just out of range. Like here in Carolina, when people talk about Winston, it is clearly thought of as being behind Durham and Greensboro. Winston has more of a Stanbase on this site than it has in real life, whereas those two have real Stans out here in the real world...
Winston is less developed than both overall, is located poorly compared to the other two, is smaller than the other two, and loses to both either on majority of legacy points or current stature. I would say it isn't far from Tier V, but it's not quite there, it's a lesser version of Columbia...
I feel similarly about Little Rock. Not far out of Tier V, and maybe earlier in the decade I thought it was, but those Carolina cities in particular have separated themselves from cities like LR...
The only part I disagree with is Winston-Salem losing to both Greensboro and Durham on legacy points and its size. For legacy, I think it bests Greensboro there and is somewhat comparable with Durham. Winston-Salem is the only one of these three to have at one time been the state's largest city and a peer to Charlotte. It has historically had a higher corporate profile than the other two and a more unique settlement history.
And while Winston-Salem has a smaller municipal population than the other two, it does have a larger urbanized area population than Greensboro. One thing Winston-Salem lacks compared to Greensboro and Durham on the metropolitan level is a secondary urban center that helps to elevate its stature. Durham has Chapel Hill, Greensboro has High Point, where Winston-Salem pretty much stands alone. That makes a difference.
This thread is 5 months from being a decade old, and hasn't been touched in 13 months. Figure time is ripe to speculate where these cities rank in correlation to each other heading into the '20s, and discuss where we saw the most shifts within this decade...
Tier I
Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas
Tier II
Charlotte, Tampa, Orlando, Austin, Nashville, San Antonio, Fort Worth
Tier III
Raleigh, Richmond, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Louisville
Tier IV
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, Birmingham, Tulsa, Baton Rouge
Tier V
Greenville, Durham, Charleston, Columbia, Knoxville, Greensboro
Unlike some who are trying to categorize these as above or below one another-at least at this current juncture, I find that too difficult. There isn't a clearly defined Alpha, as I think each of these has about 3-4 reasons to make that claim for themselves. Moving forward though... I think if one is going to jump in front of the others? I make that case for Houston. However, I don't necessarily anticipate one taking off from this group though. Atlanta is my favorite. But that is more based upon subjective preferences than any sort of hard criteria that actually influences the making of things like tiers. So, my criteria aren't all economic. Influence, etc. probably at least 4-5 other factors I considered holistically that to me would make up "city status"
New Years 6 (Tier 2-note: I am looking at whole metros/primaries, not individual cities) Austin*
Charlotte* (though Tampa would be #5 by size/regional GDP when considering CSA I believe.. Austin, but particularly Charlotte and it's more diverse/mature economy has me thinking of it "next") Nashville
New Orleans
Orlando*
Raleigh
San Antonio
Tampa*
(note: if anyone wants to critique my list for any particular reason-note that my current industry is in academia : )-I took the liberty of sticking the IMO 4 most important of these cities with asterisks... feel free to discuss.)
Rest of the Top 25 (Tier 3-note: I picked a few, that I at least considered for Tier 2 status, or could be there sometime soon) Birmingham*
El Paso
Greenville (+Upstate SC) Hampton Roads (not sure whether the "primary city" here would be Norfolk or Virginia Beach) Jacksonville* Knoxville (one of my Top 3 southern cities, along with Richmond and Atlanta) Louisville (I thought of putting Louisville over San Antonio very seriously)* Memphis*
Oklahoma City (is this southern? I mean obviously DC can be considered "southern in a technical sense too, though I generally don't-I do typically group OKC more with this set than other midwestern cities though)* Piedmont Triad (Greensboro +) Richmond* (This one might be, given my tastes, my favorite overall in the south-it toes the line of course) San Juan (; ) Figured I'd rep this here though I think there are strong arguments why it shouldn't be-I also appreciated seeing Sarasota making some people's tiers!) Tulsa
So, the 6 I put asterisks on here I think function in a number of ways more like the cities of Tier 2 than Tier 3... in any sense, I think they are clearly the upper half of this grouping.
Atlanta is more cultural than Austin or Nashville IMO.
For sure.
I can't help but think that whole "light on culture" jab had something to do with the demographics attracted to Austin/Nashville versus Atlanta/Charlotte.
I can't help but think that whole "light on culture" jab had something to do with the demographics attracted to Austin/Nashville versus Atlanta/Charlotte.
The poster that stated that has always had an anti-Atlanta/anti-South bias, but I agree.
Think about all of the recent & current 'It' cities: Portland, Denver, Austin, Nashville & Pittsburgh. All very different places, but what do they all have in common?
Meanwhile, Atlanta and Charlotte just keep booming...
.
The bottom tier I think is a cluster of Carolina cities plus Knoxville...
I'd go with the Carolina cities over your tier 1 cities.
You have some surprising picks such as Tulsa, Baton Rouge, Norfolk, B'ham in a tier above Charleston.
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