Lakewood VS West Park (Cleveland, Lorain: crimes, neighborhoods, buy)

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by WestSideIrishman

Driving around the area yesterday I must admit that I didn't notice any real difference between the neighborhoods north of Lorain and south of Lorain.

Because there isn't.

The WHOLE area seemed well kept. Puritas road seemed a little more run down but it honestly wasn't THAT bad.

Puritas does have kind of a beat up look to it. lol
Turn north into the neighborhood between the bridge and Rocky River Drive.
See: a nice safe area with well kept homes.

[ECBeastor]

Honestly when looking at comparable houses (size, sale price) one would see that lakewood's taxes are about $1000 more annually than the same house in Cleveland's West Park.

A 1500 sq ft home recently sold on Bonnieview in Lakewood for $133K and has taxes of $3700 a similar $132,000 house sold within the past 6 months on Rosemary in West Park and has taxes of $2,700. And on a side note, the house in West park sold at a $30,000 loss from what it was purchased for in 2006. The house in Lakewood sold at $23,000 profit from what it sold for in 1998 (not really an apples to apples but still interesting).

Lakewood has far more small business in walking distance. More options for dining and closer access to small and large parks and the Lake. It all depends what you want. Personally through my experience I feel the houses in Lakewood's desirable areas appreciate at a higher rate than those of West Park's best areas.

Some other general thoughts:

West Park actually seems more suburban than many parts of Lakewood do.

There are certain streets in West Park that are better than certain streets in Lakewood. So listening to one person's personal experience about a crime issue on say Lakewood's worst area (SE corner) in comparison to their experiences on Greenwood Dr. in West Park isn't apples to apples.

In principal West Park's worst areas are worse than the worst areas of Lakewood (birdtown vs. riverside projects) and Lakewood's best area's are better than West Park's best (Clifton Park vs. the streets around St. Joe's)

Lakewood (1910's) is older housing stock in general vs. West Park (1940's)

Your dollar goes further in West Park but not that much further.

Personally I'd rather pay $160K to live on a street like Abbieshire in Lakewood 500 feet from Lake Erie, 5 mins drive from 3 grocery stores (heinen's, nature's bin and giant eagle), 2 mins walk from a great park, 5-10 mins away from any type of dining you desire, on a block loaded with families with kids who my kid can play with and WALK to public school with.
vs.
paying $150K for a similar house on Marquis in West Park. (I will spare listing WP's ammenities which have been covered on numerous forums by it's several of it's great supporters on this site).

Personally I like both but I prefer Lakewood if I have to pick. You need to figure out what you get more personal equity out of in life and decide which area offers more of it. Don't let a $1000 difference in property taxes make your decision.

[Peregrine]

That's a pretty good post there but I would add an addendum re: property taxes. Many of my friends were surprised that my taxes weren't A LOT lower when I moved from Lakewood to Westpark.
My taxes went from $3400/year to about $2700/year.
Not a HUGE decrease but what everyone failed to see until I pointed it out: my lakewood home could fit in the backyard of my Westpark home.
I've got a lot almost 3 times as large.
If I would have bought a house on the same size lot, my taxes would have been cut in half, if not more.

And this I don't entirely agree with either:
"Personally I'd rather pay $160K to live on a street like Abbieshire in Lakewood 500 feet from Lake Erie, 5 mins drive from 3 grocery stores (heinen's, nature's bin and giant eagle), 2 mins walk from a great park, 5-10 mins away from any type of dining you desire, on a block loaded with families with kids who my kid can play with and WALK to public school with."

In Westpark I am a 5 minute drive from 3 grocery stores. 2 Giant Eagles and Marcs which believe it or not the Kamms one is actually a decent grocery store. I can walk to Marc's.
Depending on specifically where you live you can walk to several parks in Westpark. I can, but it is a long walk for me.
And my block is loaded with families and if you ever drive down Rocky River in the morning you'll see plenty of kids walking to PRIVATE and PUBLIC school together.
There are also many dining options in Westpark but it's also a short drive to Lakewoods many options, as well.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

A bona fide expert.

Can I ask where you live? Because you have NO clue what you are talking about. Westpark believe it or not is IMPROVING. It really is.



That's about the only thing you are right about.



Pure BS.

Armed robbery on Lorain Avenue...crack murder 152/Lorain...this stuff never happened in Kamms before...Kamms Corners was always separate from West Park...now West Park is used to describe a separate city as opposed to it being a part of Cleveland. You need an awful lot of middle class families to maintain West Park. As Cleveland empties, not all the people in less desirable areas of the city are leaving it; many have moved into West Park. I hope WP does improve but my experiences on Lorain Avenue recently sure indicate it has changed. A certain bar on Lorain was cased by a couple of city folk while we were in there...by the way, the area north of Lorain is nicer. Get to know your cop neighbors...they know what's going on in WP. I know a drug deal going down when I see one happening in the car next to me in Kamms parking lot - not b.s. just you not wanting to see the reality of Kamms Corners.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Kamms

not b.s. just you not wanting to see the reality of Kamms Corners.

Total BS. Families and young people continue to move into Westparl/Kamms.
You were at Kamms "a few months ago" and you are telling me... someone that is at Kamms a few days every week and drives past it every day... that I can't see the reality of what is going on??
Seriously?
I don't wear rosy colored glasses. Westpark is not perfect. But this drug dealing - murdering - "bar casing" (whatever that is) area you are making it out to be it is not.
Or maybe I am just one of those "sketchy people" so I just can't see the rest of the sketchy people because I am one? That must be it.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Total BS. Families and young people continue to move into Westparl/Kamms.
You were at Kamms "a few months ago" and you are telling me... someone that is at Kamms a few days every week and drives past it every day... that I can't see the reality of what is going on??
Seriously?
I don't wear rosy colored glasses. Westpark is not perfect. But this drug dealing - murdering - "bar casing" (whatever that is) area you are making it out to be it is not.
Or maybe I am just one of those "sketchy people" so I just can't see the rest of the sketchy people because I am one? That must be it.

You can see what you see and I see what I see...I know my Kamms Corners!!

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Total BS. Families and young people continue to move into Westparl/Kamms.
You were at Kamms "a few months ago" and you are telling me... someone that is at Kamms a few days every week and drives past it every day... that I can't see the reality of what is going on??
Seriously?
I don't wear rosy colored glasses. Westpark is not perfect. But this drug dealing - murdering - "bar casing" (whatever that is) area you are making it out to be it is not.
Or maybe I am just one of those "sketchy people" so I just can't see the rest of the sketchy people because I am one? That must be it.

Bar casing is when a few urban Clevelanders walk into a bar on Lorain Avenue...check out the place...and exit...the cops sitting at the bar knew what was up...another time the bartender had a gun put to his head after closing while walking west on Lorain when a sketchy person came out of the alley by what used to be Kathleen's Kitchen...I can tell you, this area has changed and it's not for the better. There was a homicide on 152/Lorain...and the bartender murdered in the Stuart house a couple weeks back...

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Total BS. Families and young people continue to move into Westparl/Kamms.
You were at Kamms "a few months ago" and you are telling me... someone that is at Kamms a few days every week and drives past it every day... that I can't see the reality of what is going on??
Seriously?
I don't wear rosy colored glasses. Westpark is not perfect. But this drug dealing - murdering - "bar casing" (whatever that is) area you are making it out to be it is not.
Or maybe I am just one of those "sketchy people" so I just can't see the rest of the sketchy people because I am one? That must be it.

You must be a newbie West Parker...Kamms Corners has changed.

[Boffo]

Kamms, do you live in Cleveland?

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Kamms

You must be a newbie West Parker...Kamms Corners has changed.

Moved in 6 years ago. Does that make me a newbie? You were last there by your own admission "several months ago" and YOU are going to tell ME what it's like?
Really?
If you would have told me you were there every weekend you would have more credibility with me. But "several months ago...."

Bar casing is when a few urban Clevelanders walk into a bar on Lorain Avenue...check out the place...and exit

And when is the last time any bar at Kamms was robbed?
197.....

What's an urban Clevelander? I assume you mean "black guys"....

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Moved in 6 years ago. Does that make me a newbie? You were last there by your own admission "several months ago" and YOU are going to tell ME what it's like?
Really?
If you would have told me you were there every weekend you would have more credibility with me. But "several months ago...."




And when is the last time any bar at Kamms was robbed?
197.....

What's an urban Clevelander? I assume you mean "black guys"....

6 years is being a newbie...also, if you actually read my post, the bartender was popped WALKING WEST ON LORAIN...No bars were robbed in Kamms Corners in the '70s...didn't happen...like I said, it's changed.
Gee, with a screen name ''Kamms'' you're not making a connection with me knowing a few things about that area?

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Kamms

6 years is being a newbie...also, if you actually read my post, the bartender was popped WALKING WEST ON LORAIN...No bars were robbed in Kamms Corners in the '70s...didn't happen...like I said, it's changed.
Gee, with a screen name ''Kamms'' you're not making a connection with me knowing a few things about that area?

I read your post. Don't be like that. I am not offended... yet. No need to act like that.

I was referring to your "urban Clevelanders" casing the joint. Casing the joint to rob it, right? Wasn't that the implication? Isn't that why you "case" something?
That's what I assumed.

I certainly don't consider myself a "Kamms Newbie". I may have just moved there 6 years ago but I have been hanging out there for a very long time. I have at least a dozen close friends that live in the area and have for YEARS... two of them for more then 20 years.

And what does your name have to do with anything? I can create a name like "Nuclear Physicist"... doesn't really mean anything....

It's all good man. I'll buy you a beer at Smedleys any night of the week and we can seriously discuss this... or Red Lanetern, Or WPS, or Backstage or or or....