Does Greenville Still Have A Southern Feel? (Charlotte, Raleigh: home, neighborhood)

[Francois]

There are still plenty of Southerners in NC, in addition to plenty of Northerners. It's only in the extreme-tranplst areas such as Cary and now, some of the other "relo" towns of Southern Wake county where you're more likely to hear "Noo YAWK" accents than Southern ones. Greenville may have transplants, but it is still the only "big town" in eastern NC, so people from all the surrounding counties go there for shopping, eating, etc. and thus you will find plenty of Southern folks.

Generally Northerners tend to assimilate to at least some degree, soften their edges, drive less aggressively, etc once they've lived here awhile and get used to it (or else they never adjust, and move back), after a seemingly mandatory period of complaining about anything and everything that is different from where they chose to leave. It's only the places such as the Triangle and Charlotte, where the growth rate is so frenetic that many never have to assimilate, because they live in entire neighborhoods full of almost all Northern transplants, that you may feel you're in "New Jersey South". Most of NC is still "Southern with a Northern spice", especially in the east.

Think of it this way--if you move here, it will be some Southern transplants to counteract some of the Northern ones

[RunningNorm]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Box of Zip Disks--nearly everything she SAID was problematic.

I actually had some constructive information to give you about the area, but I'm totally out of the notion now. I am busy, and I intend to come back and address your post at length after work. But until then, let me say this: YES, saying "Asians can't drive", as well as any other generalization, is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know what you've been taught, but yes, that is offensive. There is nothing cute, funny or "touchy feely" about that. And also, let me say this: prejudice and racism is MUCH more than lynching and burning a cross. "soft" things such as holding pre-formed views can be just as dangerous and damning. I'm sure back in segregation times, the majority of folks weren't out lynching. It's the acceptance, the silent approval of stereotypes and negative preconceived notions that kept the status quo going.

As for putting money on the counter rather than in someone's hand--YES, many people, regardless of race, consider this rude. The cashier was wrong to verbally gripe to you about it. But yes, many take offense to this. I personally find it rude, but I probably wouldn't respond as that woman did.

Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that you have used a handful of experiences with rude cashiers in stores to make blanket statements about an entire group of people. I have experienced horrible- customer service from folks of ALL genders and races.

Also, have you ever stopped to think that some of these issues are related to poverty moreso than race?

RunningNorm--Ive heard mixed things about racism in the north. Some say it's better, and some say it's WORSE, that there is actually MORE mingling and interaction between people of different races in the south, and that it's more covert up north.

Maybe things are more covert up north...I don't know...but, from personal experience...whatever it was...race was not as much of an issue, like it seems to be here...

[Mississippi Mamma]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

I actually had some constructive information to give you about the area, but I'm totally out of the notion now.

No, please do tell me about the Greenville, NC area!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

I am busy, and I intend to come back and address your post at length after work.

I actually really want to hear what you have to say- I do not want to "fight" but instead share views in a debate, I guess?

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

But until then, let me say this: YES, saying "Asians can't drive", as well as any other generalization, is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know what you've been taught, but yes, that is offensive. There is nothing cute, funny or "touchy feely" about that. And also, let me say this: prejudice and racism is MUCH more than lynching and burning a cross. "soft" things such as holding pre-formed views can be just as dangerous and damning. I'm sure back in segregation times, the majority of folks weren't out lynching. It's the acceptance, the silent approval of stereotypes and negative preconceived notions that kept the status quo going.

I know that racism and prejudice have to do with more than just lynching and burning crosses, I know. But like I said before, scientists discover new things based off of generalizations, they invent things from them, and they use generalizations all the time. I am not saying that every single Asian in America is a bad driver, but the majority of the ones I have seen are! Believe me, since I saw a bunch of bad Asian drivers, does that mean I would never get in a car with one? NO!!! White's and blacks and Mexicans can be bad drivers too!!! And to me, which I realize not everyone has the same sense of humor, a joke about Asian drivers (or jokes about any race) is funny! I know Asians who would die of laughter from jokes about that too! It is only when you take it to an extreme is it wrong. It's wrong if you were to say, "I saw an Asian in a car accident so obviously they are dangerous and I will stay away from them on the roads and teach my kids to never be near them". That would be extreme. But when it is just a little stereotype, I see nothing wrong with it. Believe me, when I travel and talk to people about my life and what I do and they hear my accent and some say, "YOU went to college?" as if they are shocked that a small town Southern girl like me went to college and got a degree!! I just laugh and say, "I do realize I'm a redneck but I do wear my shoes and am not gettin' married to my cousin!" And the other person always laughs and we continue to talk. I do not let stereotypes about me hurt me, I think they are pretty funny and I loveee redneck jokes! People can joke about race and be just joking and there is nothing wrong with it- listen to Sarah Silverman!!!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

As for putting money on the counter rather than in someone's hand--YES, many people, regardless of race, consider this rude. The cashier was wrong to verbally gripe to you about it. But yes, many take offense to this. I personally find it rude, but I probably wouldn't respond as that woman did.

Unless I'm missing something, it appears to me that you have used a handful of experiences with rude cashiers in stores to make blanket statements about an entire group of people. I have experienced horrible- customer service from folks of ALL genders and races.

I was going to drop the money so I just placed in on the counter before it all spilled. I do know many consider it rude. But when I said "no, I was gonna' spill it," she seemed to not care at all. And no I have not used that experience to generalize the blacks in Greenville, MS. These are just examples of how MANY of the blacks there think of whites. And there are many, many stories like this that come out of the Delta. Like I said, not all blacks there are like this, but a high amount are.

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Also, have you ever stopped to think that some of these issues are related to poverty moreso than race?

Thank you for mentioning this. Poverty does play a major role in the reverse racism in Mississippi. The blacks tend to be on the bottom half of the economic ladder there so I see why some would act this way, and in the rural, impoverished areas of Mississippi with white majority, it is whites being racist against blacks and not liking the upper class whites. Poverty does play a large role, but some of the blacks AND whites in Greenville, MS, do not see it like this. They think that it is obviously the other races fault and that the other race is out to screw them. That is why I said that the both races must realize that they both want the same thing- which is a better town.

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

RunningNorm--Ive heard mixed things about racism in the north. Some say it's better, and some say it's WORSE, that there is actually MORE mingling and interaction between people of different races in the south, and that it's more covert up north.

My friend from the DC area says that people like to think that there is no race problem up there, but there is racism there. Of course she lives in a fairly white area and does not see how different races interact, but when she lived in New York City she said it was much more racist than when she came to visit me in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

[Special_Guest]

Since you are interested in genuine, constructive discussion, I will participate. I look at it like this: making generalizations may be "human nature", but that doesn't make it "right". There are all kinds of things that are a part of "human nature". Fighting, selfishness, greed--all of these things make up who we are. But I personally don't think it's right to accept those things, and say "Oh, that's how things are". Whenever I wanted to do things that were dishonest--like lie and say I was 11 when I was really 12 to get in someplace for free or a child's rate--my dad would always ask me, "Is that honest? Is that the right thing to do?" Sure, "everybody" tells white lies to get freebies...but that doesn't make it "right". And if you are one of the unlucky ones to get caught, "that's what everybody does" generally doesn't cut it as an excuse.

I avoid generalizations. Even "positive" ones, or "funny" ones. The way I see it is this: I am African-American. If someone says, "Oh, all black folks can dance" (which isn't true by the way--I had a party with about 40 black friends, and the sight on the dance floor was PITIFUL)--then it isn't too far a stretch to say, "All black folks are loud", or "all black folks are unprofessional". Then from there, it isn't too far of a stretch to, "Better not hire her, you KNOW they can't get to work on time, ha ha". And honestly, generalizations like this can cause an actual stigma when someone is looking for employment, housing or other opportunities.

Also, I'll never forget--I told a blonde joke in high school--and the girl who I told it to (a blonde) was LIVID. I had seen folks wear "I'm a blonde, speak slowly" shirts, and tell blonde jokes, but this girl did NOT find it funny in the least bit. to be honest, that taught me a bit of a lesson. Everyone doesn't react the same way to what could be perceived as an insult.

And it's funny you mention the southern accent: I am taking a class right now that delves into some of these issues. We actually watched a performance by Jeff Foxworthy, where he said, "No one wants their brain surgeon to say [in a thick southern accent]: "We're going to go up in your brain and root around...". And it got me to thinking: is this really RIGHT? What if the southerner went to medical school at Duke and was at the top of his class? Is it right to make a judgement based on the way someone talks, or the region of the country that they're from? And a man from Maryland (a carpet cleaner) did try to take advantage of me once because he assumed I was a "slow southerner" (HE ADMITTED IT!) so these things can have consequences.

As for scientists using generalizations--I am not sure that that's exactly how it happens. Usually (and you scholars, bear with me if I shred this explanation--I kind of skimmed through my research class, LOL) a scientist takes an unanswered question or a hypothesis, tests it against a control, and collects the data to objectively prove his theory. The hypothesis must be PROVEN with data, and cannot be anecdotal to be valid ("Well this other scientist's cousin said this experiment worked, so it must be true."). Using a generalization would be dangerous in science, say in the case of developing a new medication. Just because it works in a test tube or petri dish doesn't mean that will translate over to a "cure". To me, scientists use the OPPOSITE of "generalizations".

As for blacks in Mississippi, you are right, I don't live there. But I think in any situation, it is important to remember the history. Things didn't get to be how they are out of thin air. I am 35. I was born and raised in NC, but you must remember, my PARENTS grew up under segregation. This wasn't that long ago. My mom and her family used to carry mason jars on trips to New York, because restrooms were not available for them. So the residue still lingers. I was fortunate, both of my parents obtained education, and we live in a pretty progressive area so even though there was segregation, there was plenty of work available, plenty of colleges for blacks to attend. Mississippi seems to have caught things awfully hard. According to a Google search, Mississippi is tied with Texas for having the lowest pay in the country, and has the lowest literacy rates in the country. There is a legacy of sharecropping that still exists (check out the movie "Lalee's Kin" for more info). You said yourself, whites are free to opt out of public schools due to having more resources. Black kids are stuck in low-performing schools. And allow me to throw in another tidbit: things in Greenville appear to still be controlled by a majority white population, so it does not appear that there have been any adverse affects in terms of social, political, health or education-wise. So *I* wouldn't consider what's going on "reverse racism". I chalk it up to folks mistreating people based on race (again--making GENERALIZATIONS) based ignorance, poverty and lack of education and opportunities.

Ultimately, I am SORRY that you have faced rude behavior from black people in Mississippi. Do NOT think that I am excusing any type of bigoted behaviors. I find it distasteful and sad. I agree with you partially--EVERYONE involved (NO EXCEPTIONS!) will need to work together and decide they want to improve things. But this would really require improving the economic health of many areas...which is another conversation.

As for the Greenville area--look into Martin and Bertie Counties. They may offer what you are looking for. Pitt County--outside of Greenville--is also rural and sparsely populated. Plenty of cheap land, too.

[Mississippi Mamma]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Since you are interested in genuine, constructive discussion, I will participate. I look at it like this: making generalizations may be "human nature", but that doesn't make it "right". There are all kinds of things that are a part of "human nature". Fighting, selfishness, greed--all of these things make up who we are. But I personally don't think it's right to accept those things, and say "Oh, that's how things are". Whenever I wanted to do things that were dishonest--like lie and say I was 11 when I was really 12 to get in someplace for free or a child's rate--my dad would always ask me, "Is that honest? Is that the right thing to do?" Sure, "everybody" tells white lies to get freebies...but that doesn't make it "right". And if you are one of the unlucky ones to get caught, "that's what everybody does" generally doesn't cut it as an excuse.

I agree with you. I was raised Southern Baptist and I would never lie or teach my kids to cheat and lie for freebies- that is part of religion and trying to become more like Christ instead of humanly. But you are right about how humans have tendencies that are not "proper" or "correct". I guess we just have completely different views where I think generalizations are not bad unless you are very literal with them or too extreme. I am forgetting the name of this story, but it is a story that you can relate almost everything in life too. There are people with their heads and bodies tied up, facing the wall of a cave so that all they see is the dark side of the cave. There is a wall behind them, and a fire behind that. Other people hold clay figures above there heads behind the wall, and walk back and forth, projecting the shadows on the back cave. The people who are chained only see these shadows for their whole lives. One day, one of the prisoners is let free, and he does not know where he is, and thinks he is having a dream. He does not believe that the things he sees are real, and goes back to be chained. This story is by a Greek philosopher, and it has to do with growing up. Since the prisoners only ever see shadows, they do not know what goes on in the world, let alone that there is a world. People grow up and depending on the way you are raised and what you are taught, you will beleive certain things. You were raised in a different way than I was, and I can never get you to beleive what I do, and you can never get me to believe what you do! We are all different.

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

I avoid generalizations. Even "positive" ones, or "funny" ones. The way I see it is this: I am African-American. If someone says, "Oh, all black folks can dance" (which isn't true by the way--I had a party with about 40 black friends, and the sight on the dance floor was PITIFUL)--then it isn't too far a stretch to say, "All black folks are loud", or "all black folks are unprofessional". Then from there, it isn't too far of a stretch to, "Better not hire her, you KNOW they can't get to work on time, ha ha". And honestly, generalizations like this can cause an actual stigma when someone is looking for employment, housing or other opportunities.

I see where you are coming from, and agree with some of it. My friend from the DC area says that kids face SO much stress growing up now because depending on what you are, there are stereotypes you must live too. Black boys like rap and are good at football and basketball. Black girls need to act all ghetto and way to cool for school. White girls need to be super pretty and perfect. White boys need to be like black boys- it is crazy. I can see how it would be hard to get a job if there are generalizations surrounding them, but a good person would ignore those for now, and judge him based off what he sees right there. I do not think generalizations will ever go away, but people can learn to "turn them off" at times. Because other times they can be helpful- if you feel uneasy about something you hear, it would be beneficial to you to do something about it instead of saying, "I don't wanna be racist so I'll stay while I feel unsafe."

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Also, I'll never forget--I told a blonde joke in high school--and the girl who I told it to (a blonde) was LIVID. I had seen folks wear "I'm a blonde, speak slowly" shirts, and tell blonde jokes, but this girl did NOT find it funny in the least bit to be honest, that taught me a bit of a lesson. Everyone doesn't react the same way to what could be perceived as an insult.

None of my blond friends or me (I'm blonde) take any offense at blonde jokes, I own a "pardon me, I'm having a blonde moment" shirt! This is my favorite joke... two blondes in New York were talking and one said, "is Florida closer to us than the sun?" and the other said, "no silly, you can't see the Florida from here!" hahaha!!! But I guess that people could take those offensively, if they are sensitive. But I would only ever say a race joke with a friend and someone I know who wouldn't be offended!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

And it's funny you mention the southern accent: I am taking a class right now that delves into some of these issues. We actually watched a performance by Jeff Foxworthy, where he said, "No one wants their brain surgeon to say [in a thick southern accent]: "We're going to go up in your brain and root around...". And it got me to thinking: is this really RIGHT? What if the southerner went to medical school at Duke and was at the top of his class? Is it right to make a judgement based on the way someone talks, or the region of the country that they're from? And a man from Maryland (a carpet cleaner) did try to take advantage of me once because he assumed I was a "slow southerner" (HE ADMITTED IT!) so these things can have consequences.

When I was living in Jackson and working downtown, I overheard a women with a New England accent who had moved to Madison (a Jackson suburb) and she was talking on the phone to someone about how she was scared if she got sick here because she didn't think "these damn Southern redneck doctors" were smart enough to cure her. In the Deep South, people are used to the accents and our doctors and surgeons sound like this. But in the North, a doctor with a Southern accent and a degree from Ole Miss would scare people!!! And down here, a jewish doctor would scare people into thinking their money is on the line!! You should bring that story up in your class!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

As for scientists using generalizations--I am not sure that that's exactly how it happens. Usually (and you scholars, bear with me if I shred this explanation--I kind of skimmed through my research class, LOL) a scientist takes an unanswered question or a hypothesis, tests it against a control, and collects the data to objectively prove his theory. The hypothesis must be PROVEN with data, and cannot be anecdotal to be valid ("Well this other scientist's cousin said this experiment worked, so it must be true."). Using a generalization would be dangerous in science, say in the case of developing a new medication. Just because it works in a test tube or petri dish doesn't mean that will translate over to a "cure". To me, scientists use the OPPOSITE of "generalizations".

You are probably right- I suck at science. I'm a history buff and an English girl, not a math or science wizz!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

As for blacks in Mississippi, you are right, I don't live there. But I think in any situation, it is important to remember the history. Things didn't get to be how they are out of thin air. I am 35. I was born and raised in NC, but you must remember, my PARENTS grew up under segregation. This wasn't that long ago. My mom and her family used to carry mason jars on trips to New York, because restrooms were not available for them. So the residue still lingers. I was fortunate, both of my parents obtained education, and we live in a pretty progressive area so even though there was segregation, there was plenty of work available, plenty of colleges for blacks to attend. Mississippi seems to have caught things awfully hard. According to a Google search, Mississippi is tied with Texas for having the lowest pay in the country, and has the lowest literacy rates in the country. There is a legacy of sharecropping that still exists (check out the movie "Lalee's Kin" for more info). You said yourself, whites are free to opt out of public schools due to having more resources. Black kids are stuck in low-performing schools. And allow me to throw in another tidbit: things in Greenville appear to still be controlled by a majority white population, so it does not appear that there have been any adverse affects in terms of social, political, health or education-wise. So *I* wouldn't consider what's going on "reverse racism". I chalk it up to folks mistreating people based on race (again--making GENERALIZATIONS) based ignorance, poverty and lack of education and opportunities.

I am sorry your parents had to deal with that and I am sorry that any black person had to deal with it. And yes, Mississippi is the poorest state, the most impoverished state, the most illiterate state, the fattest state, yet per capita we donate the most to charity. Mississippi is a mainly rural state and most people here live in the backwoods- where school is not that big of a deal. Those kids drop out of high school and farm or do labor jobs in the small towns. It is sad to see this, and if you were to go to a really small town (a few hundred) in the middle of nowhere Mississippi, it feels like going back to the depression- not being extreme. Black kids are stuck in the public schools in urban areas where MOST of the white kids go private. In the backwoods, blacks and whites are stuck in the public schools, and they all drop out. And Greenville, Mississippi does not have a majority white population. There are 35,000 people there according to the 2010 census I believe, and it is about 70% black and 30% white. The white kids there go to Washington academy while the blacks go to school in a building I would be scared for my life in. It is pretty sad because Greenville is one of the most dangerous cities in America- if you drive down Nelson street at night, pimps come up to your car and tap your windows trying to sell you drugs or prostitutes. Go into the Northside (black) neighborhoods and you will get shot. Police do not even go there, way to dangerous. It is sad that the blacks in Greenville are born into this, and I can see why they are so miserable, but they resist help and change. Part of the reason that Greenville is so dangerous is that gangs from Jackson, Memphis, and Little Rock all have moved there, and control the town. Downtown is fairly nice, but too dangerous past dark. I grew up on the white Southside in an old house from before the war... I never went to Northside except for church and to go downtown before we got our shopping center. And yes, there is reverse racism there. There is reverse racism in the whole area called the Mississippi Delta. This is not the Delta that the river ends, that is in South Louisiana, this is where the Mississippi used to end, and now it is fertile, flat, farmland. Most farm raised catfish comes from there. The Delta is from Memphis to Vicksburg, and is in Northwest Mississippi, Northeast Louisiana, Southeast and Northeast Arkansas. During the great migration, many blacks from Jackson, Biloxi, Tupelo, Hattiesburg, and the backwoods all moved to the Delta to farm and to get away from whites. Since they were second class citizens and so poor, and moved to a rural area where not much happens, they are stuck that way. The whites live so high and mighty (not all, but most) because it is an area of old money from before the way, old plantations everywhere. The Delta is full of wonderful people, GREAT FOOD, the blues, fishing and hunting, beautiful homes, and sadly tons of poverty. When someone said that South Carolina's I-95 corridor is like their Mississippi Delta, that is what they meant. These counties lose people every year, and I see it continuing to lose people and having many ghost towns. It was always just be a farming land. I told you all of this just to give you an idea of what this area is like. If you want to go visit, stop by and grab a steak at Does Eat Place, best in the world- but they will have an armed guard to watch your car!

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Ultimately, I am SORRY that you have faced rude behavior from black people in Mississippi. Do NOT think that I am excusing any type of bigoted behaviors. I find it distasteful and sad. I agree with you partially--EVERYONE involved (NO EXCEPTIONS!) will need to work together and decide they want to improve things. But this would really require improving the economic health of many areas...which is another conversation.

I agree... and that would be even more off topic than we already are

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

As for the Greenville area--look into Martin and Bertie Counties. They may offer what you are looking for. Pitt County--outside of Greenville--is also rural and sparsely populated. Plenty of cheap land, too.

That is what I figured... smaller towns nearby. Do you have a recommendation as to any towns?

[box_of_zip_disks]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

Box of Zip Disks--nearly everything she SAID was problematic.

Heh, I was being polite. As any good Southerner would.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by Special_Guest

RunningNorm--Ive heard mixed things about racism in the north. Some say it's better, and some say it's WORSE, that there is actually MORE mingling and interaction between people of different races in the south, and that it's more covert up north.

You are 100% correct on this. Where I'm from in MD there still exists to this day huge segregation. It's in the schools, neighborhoods and even counties. You have the predominately black Prince George's county (62.7% B - 24.3% W) right next to the predominately white Anne Arundel county (79.8% W - 13.6% B).

[RunningNorm]

In grad school we read a book entitled "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria."

The author spent 320 pages explaining the reasons, which ultimately came down to the simple fact that the kids wanted to sit together. People enjoy being with people who share a common culture, similar life experiences, etc.

We are ALL members of the human race; and, forced segregation is unconscionable and rightfully illegal. People of all races are of equal worth and human value.

But, it is natural for people to want to live, work, study, etc. near people who share multiple commonalities with them. So, disparities in population numbers should not always be viewed as a negative.

[bgeno]

Hmmm... thought I was going to learn about Greenville in here... lol

My girlfriend and I are "Yankees" from rural southwestern PA that are looking to move to the Greenville area. We want nicer weather (like my mom says, the steel mills are closing and we don't mine around here anymore, why do we need to deal with this much snow and 0 degree temperatures? lol), closer beaches, and better professional prospects than we have in Pittsburgh. I think we can get this in eastern Carolina.

What can you tell a Yankee about Greenville?

[RunningNorm]

I am a Yankee transplant from North East PA. I have been in Greenville five years. There are days where the weather is beautiful...almost magical. Yesterday was such a day.

The winters around here are very mild compared to PA. Maybe a few snow falls...but things do shut down when there is snow...there are not the same resources like we had up North.

There are places in Greenville, Winterville, etc that are great to live in. The college, ECU, and the hospital have great job opportunities. And ECU provides much of the cultural and athletic entertainment in the area.

The town is growing rapidly and is experiencing the growing pains associated with such growth. The crime is higher, much higher, than I would like and as has been discussed previously, the Southern vibe is patchy in the area...more P Diddy than Zac Brown in Greenville.

But, if you do a search on Greenville on here, you will find MULTIPLE threads on living in the area. Good luck!