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In grad school we read a book entitled "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria."
The author spent 320 pages explaining the reasons, which ultimately came down to the simple fact that the kids wanted to sit together. People enjoy being with people who share a common culture, similar life experiences, etc.
We are ALL members of the human race; and, forced segregation is unconscionable and rightfully illegal. People of all races are of equal worth and human value.
But, it is natural for people to want to live, work, study, etc. near people who share multiple commonalities with them. So, disparities in population numbers should not always be viewed as a negative.
^^This^^
Same reasons why "most" Southerners would rather live next door to another Southerner as opposed to a "Yankee."
When I walk into an Italian Pork store in NY, I feel right at home, as opposed to walking into a cajun chicken shop in Louisiana.
In grad school we read a book entitled "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria."
The author spent 320 pages explaining the reasons, which ultimately came down to the simple fact that the kids wanted to sit together. People enjoy being with people who share a common culture, similar life experiences, etc.
We are ALL members of the human race; and, forced segregation is unconscionable and rightfully illegal. People of all races are of equal worth and human value.
But, it is natural for people to want to live, work, study, etc. near people who share multiple commonalities with them. So, disparities in population numbers should not always be viewed as a negative.
I read the book, too...it's a little deeper than that...but I digress...
When you say "forced segregation", it depends on what you mean. If you are referring to one's personal life, and who they socialize with, I would agree...you really can't "force" that anyway, I don't know exactly how that would work...
But if you are referring to NOT enforcing or having laws to prevent segregated schools, redlining/steering in housing, discrimination in employment...this is unethical and I couldn't disagree more. "Separate But Equal" schools were sub-par...children received used textbooks, worn-out furniture, and old, shabby facilities. There was a time when it was legal to say, "I won't sell my house to ____", or "We don't hire ____". Some may consider that "forced" integration--but it was the right thing to do. Many people choose to live, work, etc. with folks of their "group", but many do not. I am black, and I chose to live in an integrated area. Many would LIKE to live elsewhere, but are relegated to living in certain areas due to a variety of factors. But I am hopeful this isn't what you had in mind.
But if you are referring to NOT enforcing or having laws to prevent segregated schools, redlining/steering in housing, discrimination in employment...this is unethical and I couldn't disagree more. "Separate But Equal" schools were sub-par...children received used textbooks, worn-out furniture, and old, shabby facilities. There was a time when it was legal to say, "I won't sell my house to ____", or "We don't hire ____". Some may consider that "forced" integration--but it was the right thing to do. Many people choose to live, work, etc. with folks of their "group", but many do not. I am black, and I chose to live in an integrated area. Many would LIKE to live elsewhere, but are relegated to living in certain areas due to a variety of factors. But I am hopeful this isn't what you had in mind.
It is a complex issue we are discussing in this thread, but the OP took us here...so, I feel it is an open for discussion topic.
I think the laws you mention are good and necessary, when they are logically enforced and all constituents still have equal access "at the table."
Like I have said I was raised up North. My first playmate ever was black. Race was never a topic of issue or even a concern with the way I grew up. I never felt "white fear" or any of that other stuff people talk about. I have lived and traveled overseas and the areas I visited, again, race was not an issue.
I have heard more about race in the years I have lived in this area than in my lifetime. And, the crime, the discussions, the attitudes, etc. have had a wearing down effect on me. And, suddenly, I find myself more aware at night of who is around me. And, I have found myself making choices due to the hue of who is coming towards me. And, I hate that living here has done that to me. I hate it...but, what do I do? Seriously, what does one do when all I read in the Reflector and see on WITN tells me I should be afraid...
Incidentally, I am one of those folks who has remained in the area, not because I 100% want to, but my work keeps me here. And my job search of the past few months did not bear fruit. So, here I remain...
But, for example, I grew up with neighborhood schools. And, they were wonderful. We are in a recession, and we are bussing children as young as five way across town to "balance" our schools...this I do not understand. Raise the quality of the services, teaching, programs, etc. at the schools in need. Don't ship kids around. It is not logical. I have a friend who has a school in her backyard but her daughter has to ride a bus to and from school to a school across town. No, that does not make sense to me. So, no, I am against "Separate but Equal." But, if neighborhood demographics lean one way or the other, I say keep the neighborhood schools. We need neighborhoods to raise kids. Kids use to have outside to play in...now they waste valuable study, family, and play time riding on busses all over the place. Sorry, that does not make sense to me. Again, raise the services that are needed.
Not hiring someone, not serving them at shops, not selling homes, etc. is again unconscionable and rightly illegal. That makes no sense and thank God that World is gone!
If only people could have these types of honest talks face to face. We tried at one of my companies on a break and were shut down by our Manager. And, it was a very multicultural group really trying to share.
...the Southern vibe is patchy in the area...more P Diddy than Zac Brown in Greenville.
Haha well that is pretty funny since I just turned on the radio while reading this, and the Zac Brown Band is on!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dregg
Same reasons why "most" Southerners would rather live next door to another Southerner as opposed to a "Yankee."
When I walk into an Italian Pork store in NY, I feel right at home, as opposed to walking into a cajun chicken shop in Louisiana.
I am assuming you are from New York- Since I am Southern, I feel wonderful and at home when I am walking into the stores in the South, but when I was in NYC, we went to a pizza place and I felt really awkward because everyone was watching me (my boots) and listening to my accent. I am sure that this is what you feel like in Louisiana though. But it is no different for a Southerner wanting to live around Southerners than it is for a Northerner wanting to live around Northerners, they both feel the same when in the different culture!
I have heard more about race in the years I have lived in this area than in my lifetime. And, the crime, the discussions, the attitudes, etc. have had a wearing down effect on me. And, suddenly, I find myself more aware at night of who is around me. And, I have found myself making choices due to the hue of who is coming towards me. And, I hate that living here has done that to me. I hate it...but, what do I do? Seriously, what does one do when all I read in the Reflector and see on WITN tells me I should be afraid...
This is a REALLY poignant observation. Being a former TV news journalist--in two Eastern NC stations (not that that makes a huge difference), I can tell you that these things typically are not by accident. Or maybe they are. Perhaps folks don't really do a lot of critical thinking and self-examination as to why they do the things they do, why they cover stories in the manner that they do. I was pretty low on the totem pole, so I tried to speak out--but I didn't carry much weight. But that is an extremely valid observation--as much as we hate to admit it, we are vulnerable to what we are "fed".
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningNorm
But, for example, I grew up with neighborhood schools. And, they were wonderful. We are in a recession, and we are bussing children as young as five way across town to "balance" our schools...this I do not understand. Raise the quality of the services, teaching, programs, etc. at the schools in need. Don't ship kids around. It is not logical. I have a friend who has a school in her backyard but her daughter has to ride a bus to and from school to a school across town. No, that does not make sense to me. So, no, I am against "Separate but Equal." But, if neighborhood demographics lean one way or the other, I say keep the neighborhood schools. We need neighborhoods to raise kids. Kids use to have outside to play in...now they waste valuable study, family, and play time riding on busses all over the place. Sorry, that does not make sense to me. Again, raise the services that are needed.
I can see your points...but when I look at the data, and the results of the current Wake County schools (who have a plan--that will be eliminated soon--to keep the schools stable by income levels) and what happened to Charlotte's schools when they went back to neighborhood schools...the results are distasteful. Charlotte schools are AWFUL now. I think kids benefit when they are exposed to a wide variety of people. I think concentrating all of the poor, disadvantaged children in ONE location isn't beneficial, nor is concentrating all privileged kids in one school. I think about the recently demolished Cabrini-Green housing project in Chicago. This was one of the most grindingly poor, deadly locales in Chicago (maybe the country). An article I read Sunday said most people had NEVER been away from the block where Cabrini-Green is located, didn't even know how to get downtown. I just think scenarios like that are scary (even though it probably wouldn't be QUITE as extreme here in NC). If these folks NEVER even ventured downtown in their own city, imagine how much of the world they have no CLUE about. I think children who ride horses, nerds, rappers, musicians, rappers, jocks, rich, low-income, kids from all backgrounds are enriched by learning about different lifestyles. Also, from my understanding, the way it is in Wake County, kids don't ride HOURS--not even like 45 minutes. Folks aren't sent all over the county. They may go to a school 15 minutes away, rather than one in walking distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningNorm
If only people could have these types of honest talks face to face. We tried at one of my companies on a break and were shut down by our Manager. And, it was a very multicultural group really trying to share.
Conversations like this are not easy to have for a wide variety of reasons, but I think it's a wonderful thing when they do happen. There are so many misconceptions on ALL sides, and folks too often rely on outside or inaccurate sources to form their opinions. That's too bad your manager shut down the conversation. Many folks feel that discussing stuff like this "brings up bad feelings" or feel that "people need to get over this-or-that", and not discussing it fosters "getting over it"--whatever that entails.
I can see your points...but when I look at the data, and the results of the current Wake County schools (who have a plan--that will be eliminated soon--to keep the schools stable by income levels) and what happened to Charlotte's schools when they went back to neighborhood schools...the results are distasteful. Charlotte schools are AWFUL now. I think kids benefit when they are exposed to a wide variety of people. I think concentrating all of the poor, disadvantaged children in ONE location isn't beneficial, nor is concentrating all privileged kids in one school. I think about the recently demolished Cabrini-Green housing project in Chicago. This was one of the most grindingly poor, deadly locales in Chicago (maybe the country). An article I read Sunday said most people had NEVER been away from the block where Cabrini-Green is located, didn't even know how to get downtown. I just think scenarios like that are scary (even though it probably wouldn't be QUITE as extreme here in NC). If these folks NEVER even ventured downtown in their own city, imagine how much of the world they have no CLUE about. I think children who ride horses, nerds, rappers, musicians, rappers, jocks, rich, low-income, kids from all backgrounds are enriched by learning about different lifestyles. Also, from my understanding, the way it is in Wake County, kids don't ride HOURS--not even like 45 minutes. Folks aren't sent all over the county. They may go to a school 15 minutes away, rather than one in walking distance.
I appreciate your kind and thoughtful reply. As to the media, it is tough. One wants to stay informed. But, some would say, too, ignorance is bliss. Maybe lessening my exposure to the news would help with this dissonance I feel in my head...
As to schools, we may have to agree to disagree. I live in a different county and the little girl I mentioned is on the bus 30 minutes each way. And, literally, a perfectly good school is visible from their back window. Add to that the time waiting for the bus at each step and, sorry, it does not make sense to me.
And, while I don't have hard data to back this up, seeing specials like Morgan Freeman's about segregated proms and my own observations; classrooms and lunch rooms may be diverse now, but they are far from integrated. Just because kids are attending the same schools does not mean they are really interacting in a meaningful way.
As to Cabrini Green and the lack of venturing out; I have spoken with many people in this region who have never been to Charlotte or Raleigh or Atlantic Beach. So, that is not exclusive to projects or other areas of poverty. The projects were a failure in the US for many obvious reasons.
God Bless you friend, but this has tired me out. I think I am out of this thread for the time being.
I have heard more about race in the years I have lived in this area than in my lifetime. And, the crime, the discussions, the attitudes, etc. have had a wearing down effect on me. And, suddenly, I find myself more aware at night of who is around me. And, I have found myself making choices due to the hue of who is coming towards me. And, I hate that living here has done that to me. I hate it...but, what do I do? Seriously, what does one do when all I read in the Reflector and see on WITN tells me I should be afraid... .
Well, if you've been here long enough you come to realize that outside the fishing and farm reports and high school football scores local news should be taken with a colossal grain of salt.
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Location: Greenville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Special_Guest
This is a REALLY poignant observation. Being a former TV news journalist--in two Eastern NC stations (not that that makes a huge difference), I can tell you that these things typically are not by accident. Or maybe they are. Perhaps folks don't really do a lot of critical thinking and self-examination as to why they do the things they do, why they cover stories in the manner that they do. I was pretty low on the totem pole, so I tried to speak out--but I didn't carry much weight. But that is an extremely valid observation--as much as we hate to admit it, we are vulnerable to what we are "fed".
You are 100% right. I have been long critical of the amount of TV coverage that crime gets in this area. It's not the News At 6, it's the Crime Report At 6. Each and every news broadcast is opened with 5 minutes of wall to wall crime. How can a person NOT think that there's a huge problem when the TV stations sensationalize every crime no matter how petty?
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) and listening to my accent. I am sure that this is what you feel like in Louisiana though. But it is no different for a Southerner wanting to live around Southerners than it is for a Northerner wanting to live around Northerners, they both feel the same when in the different culture!
Many folks feel that discussing stuff like this "brings up bad feelings" or feel that "people need to get over this-or-that", and not discussing it fosters "getting over it"--whatever that entails.
