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While I'm sure it's happened, I can't recall an instance of a QB getting injured on a designed run. Designed QB runs are about a good 15%-20% of the Ravens' offensive game plan. Most people think of Vick and RG3 when they think of "mobile" QBs and those guys did in fact play the game in a reckless way that led to injury. But their injury history had more to do with their style of play than it did with the plays being called for them. They were scramblers. I think it's totally different when you have an extra blocker and a guard pulling for you and you're not taking the full brunt of a hit the way you might in the pocket or on a scramble.
You may have trouble recalling an instance because most coaches will try to preserve their QB and do less designed run plays. They are inherently dangerous - you have a player in all likelihood with a smaller build trying to run around or through guys that are typically much bigger. And The QB can't just throw a ball away if he can't slide quickly enough
Fields was actually hurt during the Penn St. game. He was hurt on a scramble out of the pocket on a 4th down play and then he hurt his thumb on what I think was zone read keep at the goal line where he fumbled. So not by the definition "designed run play" but the same principle QB being used as a running back when the play breaks down.
I agree with Clem and Bajan regarding all this schedule talk. It will not matter when these two teams are across from each other on December 28. The Great Clemson Offense has squared up against the Great Clemson Defense all through the Spring, Summer and Practice scrimmages. Loads of their players have gone through multiple playoff runs against equal competition. OSU will be their toughest opponent this season but these Clemson guys have seen skill/speed that is comparable through some of their career.
This game will be decided on matchups and execution. If both teams execute we should have decent idea what will transpire.
I firmly believe the OSU gameplan will be est. run between the tackles. The goal will be 45-50 Runs and 20-25 passes. Dobbins will carry the lionshare, I think Fields will have to keep 10-15 to keep the Defense honest. Master Teague is more than capable to spell Dobbins with very little drop off. When they pass it they will have an extra edge protector and playaction or 5 wide crossers (Garrett Wilson and KJ Hill Dangerous here) with Ryan Day "coaching up" Fields on the weak spot/defender (see Michigan 2018 and some Michigan 2019) on the play- this is Olave time. I think the wrinkle might be a guy like Jeremy Ruckert (5 Star second year TE) down the Seam. I think Day will roll the pocket more with Fields as well. I will watch the first 10 plays (interior line G/C/G) of each half and I'll know how the OSU offense will fair. If the G/C/G combo are reaching the second level it will be good news for OSU fans. If we aren't and the distribution pass/run turns to 50/50 the OSU defense better come to play.
Just for your edification, outside of your mighty Tigers............
The ACC went 2-11 against teams in the other Power 5 conferences. ACC sans Clemson had wins over Rutgers and South Carolina.
Losses were Notre Dame x 2, Florida x 2 Kentucky, Maryland, WVU, Penn State, Alabama, Georgia and of course Kansas.
You all lost a freakin' home game to Kansas.
ACC has had some really good years. This wasn't one of them.
That's misleading b/c UGA and Alabama played G Tech and Duke who were at bottom of ACC.
UVA and Va Tech had to play a good ND team at ND, and Va Tech lost the game in late minute despite playing a 3rd string QB.
Miami and Pitt both lost tight games to Florida and Penn State, and those games were on neutral field or away. Pitt beat UCF.
Lville game was at Kentucky, NC State was at WVU.
Syracuse was one of the worst ACC teams this year and the game was at Maryland. Kansas put up more points on Texas at Texas than on BC.
I don't understand why you say ya'll as though ACC teams are connected at the hip. I'm not an ACC cheerleader. I don't think it is as people like you and the negative Paul Finebaum types make it out to be.
You also leave out SEC teams lost to Georgia State, Wyoming, Memphis, App State this year.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-12-2019 at 04:52 PM..
You may have trouble recalling an instance because most coaches will try to preserve their QB and do less designed run plays. They are inherently dangerous - you have a player in all likelihood with a smaller build trying to run around or through guys that are typically much bigger. And The QB can't just throw a ball away if he can't slide quickly enough
Fields was actually hurt during the Penn St. game. He was hurt on a scramble out of the pocket on a 4th down play and then he hurt his thumb on what I think was zone read keep at the goal line where he fumbled. So not by the definition "designed run play" but the same principle QB being used as a running back when the play breaks down.
Fields was still hurt in the "Big 10" title game. Urban Meyer did the half-time commentary and asserted that something was "off" in his balance which usually means a lingering injury. That root cause can likely be traced back to Penn State. Ligaments take time to heal - even for young guys. But he'll probably recover by the CFP game.
Wisconsin had receivers that matched up well against the defensive secondary in the backfield and scored well in the first half. They just didn't have the depth and rotations to keep up with Ohio State. By contrast, I would think Clemson has even more depth than Ohio State on both sides. I think Clemson has the potential to get ahead like Wisconsin did in the first half but the depth to keep it that way in the second. Ohio State seems vulnerable against Clemson. If the Buckeyes somehow manage to keep up in a scoring frenzy I suspect they will just cramp up late in the 4th quarter while Clemson keeps torching them for touchdowns.
It should be a great game though. I remember watching the Clemson championship game of the 1981-1982 season and recall the dual threat quarterback burning out the defense late in the 4th quarter. That was a good time for an early sports rendition of Queen's "We are the champions" - already very popular at the time for sports events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Orange_Bowl
But the advantage for Clemson seems to be in the semi-final. If LSU wins, then I would think they have the better odds to win the championship albeit in a close game. The hidden variable could be injuries though - a CFP semi-final still has the potential to knock out key players. Just look at what happened to Baylor against OU - the same type of "surprise" injuries could happen in the playoff games.
You've provided no evidence of that and how many big 10 teams have pro caliber NFL players. Ohio State wins that conf most seasons
Penn State is projected to have at least five players selected in the 2020 NFL draft. This doesn't include likely future players such as defensive standout Micah Parsons.
Both Penn State and Wisconsin are tied for 10th place with 26 players on the list of most NFL players from a university, according to this list. This is just 2 less players than the 28 former Clemson players on NFL rosters at the beginning of the season.
This list shows 30 former Michigan Wolverines on NFL rosters, 33 former Wisconsin Badgers, and 40 former Penn State Nittany Lions on NFL rosters. These ESPN lists may include NFL practice squad rosters.
By the number of Round 1 and Round 2 NFL draft picks in the last 5 NFL drafts, all three teams played by Ohio State in the last 3 weeks top the Virginia Cavaliers. E.g., in the last 7 NFL drafts, Virginia had one second round pick; Wisconsin had four first round picks and 2 second round picks. So it's not just the quantity of players, but the quality of players higher in the programs faced by the Buckeyes in the last three weeks.
I firmly believe the OSU gameplan will be est. run between the tackles. The goal will be 45-50 Runs and 20-25 passes. Dobbins will carry the lionshare, I think Fields will have to keep 10-15 to keep the Defense honest. Master Teague is more than capable to spell Dobbins with very little drop off. When they pass it they will have an extra edge protector and playaction or 5 wide crossers (Garrett Wilson and KJ Hill Dangerous here) with Ryan Day "coaching up" Fields on the weak spot/defender (see Michigan 2018 and some Michigan 2019) on the play- this is Olave time. I think the wrinkle might be a guy like Jeremy Ruckert (5 Star second year TE) down the Seam. I think Day will roll the pocket more with Fields as well. I will watch the first 10 plays (interior line G/C/G) of each half and I'll know how the OSU offense will fair. If the G/C/G combo are reaching the second level it will be good news for OSU fans. If we aren't and the distribution pass/run turns to 50/50 the OSU defense better come to play.
Ohio State has very good tight ends. Ryan Day and Kevin Wilson are very, very good offensive minds and my hunch is that they will unleash their tight ends against Clemson. When Ohio State found itself trailing at halftime against Wisconsin in the BIG championship, Jeremy Ruckert was targeted in the end zone and made a brilliant one-handed catch. Day and Wilson may have been holding back its tight end offense all season in anticipation for the play-offs. Just a guess.
You've provided no evidence of that and how many big 10 teams have pro caliber NFL players. Ohio State wins that conf most seasons
I’m glad evidence was provided. But if you couldn’t tell from NFL rosters that’s your bad.
Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan consistently put guys on NFL rosters.
Then you have teams like Iowa, Michigan State that do as well - consistently.
This is one of the out dated notions that I cringe when I hear - that the Big Ten doesn’t stack up talent for talent compared to other conferences. It’s probably a step under the SEC top to bottom but ACC Pac12 Big12 - no way!!!
You've provided no evidence of that and how many big 10 teams have pro caliber NFL players. Ohio State wins that conf most seasons
Michigan, the most veteran of the top tier BIG teams this year, has as many as 15 players likely to be selected in the 2020 NFL draft (see the last paragraph for four more, including Shea Patterson, a 5-star high school QB).
When it spanked Michigan this year, 56-27, I wonder if in that SINGLE GAME Ohio State faced more NFL 2020 draft picks than Clemson faced during its entire 2019 season so far, and it's certainly fair to say that having 11-15 NFL-caliber players on a single opponent's team is one tough match-up, the likes of which Clemson hasn't remotely faced this year.
Of course, Clemson boosters in this thread (incredibly) don't think dominating a team like Michigan means anything, nor confers any beneficial experience, even when the game was in the likes of the Big House on the road. Count on Ohio State alumni dominating the fans in attendance for the semi-final game against Clemson. How will this Clemson team perform if offensive communication is difficult, especially given Ohio State's defensive experience and skill in making last-second defensive shifts? Urban Meyer has repeatedly said that the reason this Ohio State team is dominant is that all of the defensive starters and many of the back-ups eventually will play on Sundays, and many will be first and second round draft picks. E.g., Brendon White, the 2019 Rose Bowl MVP, wasn't injured but rarely played in 2019 for the Buckeyes.
In the 2019 NFL draft, only 28 ACC players were drafted, but six were from Clemson. The ACC ex Clemson seems even worse this year. Of course, Clemson also played Texas A&M and South Carolina, but neither team made the final CFP rankings and likely aren't loaded with 2020 NFL draft talent.
I’m glad evidence was provided. But if you couldn’t tell from NFL rosters that’s your bad.
Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan consistently put guys on NFL rosters.
Then you have teams like Iowa, Michigan State that do as well - consistently.
This is one of the out dated notions that I cringe when I hear - that the Big Ten doesn’t stack up talent for talent compared to other conferences. It’s probably a step under the SEC top to bottom but ACC Pac12 Big12 - no way!!!
Well.. Let's crunch the numbers. the P5 conferences, since 2010. Number of players drafted.
SEC - 516
ACC - 359
Big 10 - 346
PAC 10/12 - 319
Big 12 - 236
So.. Way. it's just a step below the ACC so far as number of players drafted. WAY below the SEC, as is everyone else.
But.. overall.. Does that necessarily mean anything? Quite frankly, I don't feel like going through all the current NFL rosters.. But even then.. Opinions come into play.. I mean, C.J. Beathard is on a roster.. As are Daniel Jones and Mitch Trubisky.. Are they quality players? Kinda depends on who you ask. I mean, Clipboard Jesus had a 10 year career. The SEC put out Heath Shuler. I suppose the PAC12 gets credit for Ryan Leaf.
And then there's positions.. The Big 10 seems to put out a high number of quality offensive linemen. I don't have numbers here, but it certainly seems to me that they put out more star OL than any other conference. The SEC certainly seems to have the same on DL. Not saying this is fact because I haven't crunched the numbers, but seems that way to me.
Then.. Drafted players are only part of the equation. While it's not overly common, it's not rare either that star NFL players go undrafted.
There's no college team that is going to put every player on an NFL roster. And there's very few that won't put at least one.
Well.. Let's crunch the numbers. the P5 conferences, since 2010. Number of players drafted.
SEC - 516
ACC - 359
Big 10 - 346
PAC 10/12 - 319
Big 12 - 236
So.. Way. it's just a step below the ACC so far as number of players drafted. WAY below the SEC, as is everyone else.
But.. overall.. Does that necessarily mean anything? Quite frankly, I don't feel like going through all the current NFL rosters.. But even then.. Opinions come into play.. I mean, C.J. Beathard is on a roster.. As are Daniel Jones and Mitch Trubisky.. Are they quality players? Kinda depends on who you ask. I mean, Clipboard Jesus had a 10 year career. The SEC put out Heath Shuler. I suppose the PAC12 gets credit for Ryan Leaf.
And then there's positions.. The Big 10 seems to put out a high number of quality offensive linemen. I don't have numbers here, but it certainly seems to me that they put out more star OL than any other conference. The SEC certainly seems to have the same on DL. Not saying this is fact because I haven't crunched the numbers, but seems that way to me.
Then.. Drafted players are only part of the equation. While it's not overly common, it's not rare either that star NFL players go undrafted.
There's no college team that is going to put every player on an NFL roster. And there's very few that won't put at least one.
Just, overall, this seems like a silly argument.
No substantiating links provided. Going back 10 years doesn't reflect the decline in the Florida State and Louisville programs in recent years.
See posts 955 and 958 for current, DOCUMENTED analyses.
Quality of players is "silly?" Why do I ever bother posting in this thread???
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