Is college worth it? (bachelors, career, nurses, scholarships)

[L'Artiste]

Originally Posted by NJBest

"i was told my whole life that college would save my life from parents,teachers,media... therefore i believed it and didn't try to save my own..."

You can tell by the tone that he wished like he had done more to save his life.

His one sentence supports my post in its entirety. His parents screwed him by implanting a one-track mind when it comes to success.

I graduated recently as well.

hey i'm a girl
and yes i was told by everyone including my counselors that college would save me, that i would be absolutely nothing without a sheet of paper

even though i didnt believe it , after years of reinforcement it set in

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by L'Artiste

hey i'm a girl
and yes i was told by everyone including my counselors that college would save me, that i would be absolutely nothing without a sheet of paper

even though i didnt believe it , after years of reinforcement it set in

Oops! Sorry!

Anyways, I believe that a college education still adds value to your marketability.... so it's not all a waste. Best of luck!

[John23]

It's a scam.

-I don't want to pin the whole thing on the baby boomers, but they are from a -completely- different era.

1st - Everything was so cheap in the old days (50's to 70's), women working wasn't a necessity. You had a far smaller pool in the college market. The cream rose to the top. Look how far it carried their earnings. For 40 years.

Limited supply (the US was the primary game in town) + talent = earnings.

2nd - Now, the situation is completely reversed. When the baby boom teachers and administrators all say, "college will save your life", they're looking in the rear view mirror. But now, there are storms ahead, roads that are incomplete, sections missing, etc.

Aughts were a lost decade for U.S. economy, workers

3rd - No net job creation since Dec 1999! Plus, all these tution increases faster than inflation? That spells, S-C-A-M for this generation. A lower return on investment, if any for many degrees.

4th - The college game blew apart in the 70's or 80's (esp the 90's). More competition from overseas (i.e. 5 million Indian Engineers). Why is a degree in Latin American studies rising faster than inflation for 20 or 30 years? Why aren't harder questions being asked in k-12.

In 30 years, many of the degrees from the 90's and 00's are going to look like holding a bag of beans. Tier 2 or 3 American law degree (at 70 or $100,000) vs X degree from China, Asia or Europe at ($5,000 or $10,000)? Which is going to be the smarter choice?

5th - The really dangerous mistake for gen y, (college will save your life), was assuming the past would equal the future. But, really, past problems got pushed forward. If past problems are being pushed forward (that gen y will pay for), then why is tuition rising faster than inflation? It's part of this ridiculous scam.

Plus the books at $130. It's all a scam. Why is there so much competition in the private book market (borders filing for bankruptcy, amazon slashing prices, etc), but the college book market continues to go up? Lack of innovation. It's too big of a gravy train for too many people. All under this noble guise of "education", "enlightenment".

But its turning more and more into a remedial day care center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/ny...4remedial.html

[Gatornation]

Originally Posted by John23

It's a scam.

-I don't want to pin the whole thing on the baby boomers, but they are from a -completely- different era.

1st - Everything was so cheap in the old days (50's to 70's), women working wasn't a necessity. You had a far smaller pool in the college market. The cream rose to the top. Look how far it carried their earnings. For 40 years.

Limited supply (the US was the primary game in town) + talent = earnings.

2nd - Now, the situation is completely reversed. When the baby boom teachers and administrators all say, "college will save your life", they're looking in the rear view mirror. But now, there are storms ahead, roads that are incomplete, sections missing, etc.

Aughts were a lost decade for U.S. economy, workers

3rd - No net job creation since Dec 1999! Plus, all these tution increases faster than inflation? That spells, S-C-A-M for this generation. A lower return on investment, if any for many degrees.

4th - The college game blew apart in the 70's or 80's (esp the 90's). More competition from overseas (i.e. 5 million Indian Engineers). Why is a degree in Latin American studies rising faster than inflation for 20 or 30 years? Why aren't harder questions being asked in k-12.

In 30 years, many of the degrees from the 90's and 00's are going to look like holding a bag of beans. Tier 2 or 3 American law degree (at 70 or $100,000) vs X degree from China, Asia or Europe at ($5,000 or $10,000)? Which is going to be the smarter choice?

5th - The really dangerous mistake for gen y, (college will save your life), was assuming the past would equal the future. But, really, past problems got pushed forward. If past problems are being pushed forward (that gen y will pay for), then why is tuition rising faster than inflation? It's part of this ridiculous scam.

Plus the books at $130. It's all a scam. Why is there so much competition in the private book market (borders filing for bankruptcy, amazon slashing prices, etc), but the college book market continues to go up? Lack of innovation. It's too big of a gravy train for too many people. All under this noble guise of "education", "enlightenment".

But its turning more and more into a remedial day care center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/ny...4remedial.html

Your broad generalizations really hide some of the few good points you make. Going to a top 100 college these days still an easy choice. You just have to be mindful of your major and how much you pay.

What you also neglect to mention are the proven facts. Those being the salary differences and the unemployment rate. These days you aren't guaranteed a job after college and that has a lot to do with all the crappy schools kids are going to.

What needs to be done now is differentiating colleges and then gather statistics.

[MassVt]

I've made the argument before, but it may be worth repeating (quickly) here...

The idea of "college" may have to revert back to what it meant in the years before the GI Bill of WW2. That is, you only went to college if 1) you were truly an exceptional student, and/or 2) you could afford it. We now simply have too many college graduates ( and too many grads of "dubious" schools), and not nearly enough college level jobs/opportunities to satisfy them. Draconian? Maybe, maybe not. At least, it would spare some marginal students the prospect of having to pay back tens of thousands of dollars in loans that were spent with little realistic hope of a satisfactory result. And maybe, just maybe, the explosion of community colleges in the past half-century can re reined in, and the classes that they offer will actually be taught where they should have been taught all along: IN HIGH SCHOOL.

[manquaman]

Originally Posted by JayWatson

What I am asking is, is it worth it to go to college today when everything you can learn in the classroom is readily available from a multitude of sources for a fraction of the cost? My opinion is no. There is absolutely no guarantee of success and you're on the hook for potentially six-figure debt.?

There is no substitute for the back-and-forth input that comes from sitting in a classroom in front of an instructor that has years of experience in answering questions. A good instructor will teach more than the topic at hand. It is a broadening experience that one cannot achieve on their own.

The other part of what I would say that college fulfills is the ability to learn how to learn. Reading a book and reacting to the information in it is only comprehension. It is true that a very high percentage of the theory taught in most (definitely not all) major studies is useless when it comes to on-the-job functioning. My undergraduate Architecture education was brought to light for me when I heard one prof. talking to a visiting Architect. He said, "The first four years are only important for teaching how to draw and make a deadline." I was crushed because the work was so strenuous as an undergrad, but later I realized how many other fields of study are the same. You learn more on the job than you do in school, but there are redeeming qualities of getting an advanced education.

I think one of the main reasons employers look for a college degree is to determine whether an individual has the drive to complete a program. That gives them an idea of whether their new employee will take to the training they are given - very expensive in many fields, and if they can be counted on to be able to endure long or difficult projects without giving up and quitting. Basically, college is only one of many hoops that people have to jump through to get a job.

Now if you ask if it is entirely necessary, I'd point you to some of the people who did not go or finish. You might have heard of Stephen Spielberg and, what was that guy's name, Bill Gates? Michael Dell? It all depends if you have the drive to succeed because you have passion, ingenuity, or the kind of personality that has been opening doors for you since you became your first grade teacher's pet. And don't forget that for some fields you cannot get licensed without the credential.

I do think it takes more work without a degree, but somebody already said that.

Originally Posted by JayWatson

Is college necessary to finding something that you are good at?

I wish I had asked this question before I stopped short of getting my degree. I was too dumb at that age to ask the right questions. For some reason I thought that if I got a degree in a certain field and ended up not liking the work that I would be doomed to live that depressing life until I retired. It wasn't until many years later that I learned that most people will go through two or three careers before they find the one that suits them.

I have been telling my son since he was ten that he needs to begin thinking about what he likes to do when he is bored. These are often the things we are passionate about and thus good at, by defaulting to them when we think we have nothing else to do. This hit me on the beach in Oahu while I was writing terrible poetry. I had been writing stories since I was a kid in fourth grade. I may not ever be able to live solely off my writing, but I can surely say that my level of self-fulfillment went through the roof when I began pursuing the thing I love.

So I would say that "no" college isn't necessary to finding something you are good at. It can certainly help expose you to the end product of a skill you have always had, like solving puzzles and using that to become a criminologist, and so on.

[newyorker24]

A college degree is worth it. They are coming the new standard, so even positions that used to be given to people with high school diplomas are now requiring bachelor's degrees. The opportunities you will have with a college degree are much greater in quantity and quality than those you will have without one. Grad school is now becoming the differentiator. You might be able to make an okay salary without a degree (maybe up to $50-60k depending on what you do) but you will likely not have the earning potential of a college graduate.

[L'Artiste]

maybe if they hadn't made college such a big deal TO EVERYONE, and talked about trade school(something i wanted to do) or other avenues everyone wouldn't have jumped to go to college and instead decided to pick up a trade or do their own thing...then it would be less competition?

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by newyorker24

A college degree is worth it. They are coming the new standard, so even positions that used to be given to people with high school diplomas are now requiring bachelor's degrees. The opportunities you will have with a college degree are much greater in quantity and quality than those you will have without one. Grad school is now becoming the differentiator. You might be able to make an okay salary without a degree (maybe up to $50-60k depending on what you do) but you will likely not have the earning potential of a college graduate.

Golden rule theory tends to fail. That's why it's usually disregarded.

[Kevroqs]

It's worth it

Aside from coursework, what else have you done besides call of duty or chasing down the opposite sex? They haven't done anything else productive, and this scares away potential employers.