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Not sure if this belongs here, but this pertains to the social-life benefits of having a college-education.
By this, I mean those of us that are just high-school graduates and work in capacities that either didn't require a degree, or just got by with some trade-tech from a community college.
In the blue-collar fields, it's always possible to make just as much of a living as someone working some sort of job requiring an advanced degree of some sort.
However, when for whatever reason a blue-collar worker attempts to step beyond their social circle for a little more enlightenment, people in the other circle get alarmed.
I don't think it matters. I will go farther, if it matters to someone who excludes you solely because level of education than you are better off not associating with an idiot anyway.
I have written about him a number times but nearly 40 years ago I was a flight instructor and one of my students never made it beyond eighth grade when he was forced to drop out to support his family upon the death of his father in West Virginia.
So he got into construction, purchased a rubber tire backhoe and started digging ditches. His company expanded and today if you travel on any Interstate highway in West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio or Indiana chances are very good you are traveling more than just a section or two of highway his company constructed.
When I was flight instructing he was buying a lot of property around the sleepy town of Orlando. Several thousand acres (I heard seven thousand but can't be sure) he bought but today it's no longer orchards but parking lots, buildings, roads and part of a theme park. Who would have guessed.
Down to earth, kept in touch for years after he got his instrument rating and you would never guess he owned a Piper Arrow, Beechcraft Baron and Cessna 421 which he flew off his own private airstrip. Well, he flew the Arrow and Baron off the strip but the insurance company made him fly the 421 off a paved runway.
He very recently died in his 80's having lived a full,rich life. His death reminds me I am no longer the spring chicken I once was.
I heard through someone that would have known that he left an estate valued in 9 figures. Cracks me up because nobody would have ever guessed it unless you knew him. Overalls, baseball cap and work boots all three which were likely dirty by the end of the day because he loved nothing butter than to change the oil in a D-9 bulldozer of which he owned several dozen. The bulldozers along with acres of graders,dump trucks, rollers and you name it he had it.
He had other companies too. One was a metal fabrication company that manufactured the tracks for the Apollo rocket crawler at Cape Kennedy. These vehicles were still being used for the space shuttle program.
Smart? You didn't live to end up at his level without being smart. He knew everything and everybody and probably knew more about construction law than any lawyer who worked for him.
But it seems to me college and higher education has morphed into something it was never intended to be which I find disturbing. Today it is as if "go to college so you can get that job that 40 years ago any high school student could do".
Some of the smartest people I know have only eighth grade educations. One famous man, now, is the "Horse Whisperer", from Montana.
I am well educated, have a bunch of meaningless papers. Means nothing to me. And I don't look down on anyone regarding education. As a matter of fact, they were smarter than I was...I have a bunch of student loans.
Last edited by jasper12; 11-22-2012 at 04:41 PM..
Reason: edit
In my own lifetime I'm seen big increases in the amount of education required for jobs. To teach elementary school used to require a degree from a "normal" school and when I started teaching, the best teacher in the school was only a normal school graduate.
I had a 4 year degree, which was the requirement. Then it became a masters degree. Really, it only meant more schooling and paying more money and more time spent away from teaching.
I would say that in the lower elementary grades, teachers learn more by teaching than by taking more coursework but of course, if we didn't get our masters degrees, the higher ups would be telling us we weren't worth much in terms of pay!
I prefer to look down on people who have degrees, but who are complete idiots. There are so many of them to go around, I never even get around to looking down on those who never went to college!
I think that years back a college degree might have meant more. Those attracted to college were of a more scholastic nature and standards were higher. Now there are colleges that will accept practically anyone. Colleges used to produce well rounded individuals, interested and conversant in a variety of subjects. Now they are often glorified trade schools.
So, years back a college education probably did separate a certain type of individual from the rest of the public. It said something distinctive about a person. You were not far from wrong if you thought a college educated person was interested in academics.
I have an MBA, but find that I was much more influenced by my high school education, which taught me most of the math that I have used in my life as well as how to pronounce words, enjoy vocabulary, and put a sentence together. My MBA helped me in my employment situation.
I think I could be interested in most people who are on a quest of self improvement, no matter where it took them in their lives.
I see humanity as being distinguished from the other animals by our minds. People, degreed or not, who ignore the cultivation of the mind are living an animal's existence. There are some who rise above this fundamental nature and they should be encouraged (so the degree is not the important thing here). If I am in the company of my intellectual superiors I try to keep my mouth shut and learn things. I am not fearful of asking questions. I appreciate others of like mind.
People who are interested in meeting other interesting individuals might google Conversation Cafe or Socrates Cafe.
I have a masters, most of my friends have them or docs as well (most of us met at work) but we have several friends who only have AS or high school degrees. I do not know anyone who actually "looks down" on people for not having a college degree.
Most people I know do not really talk about their degrees at all, but might talk about their research or related topics but mostly we talk about other things. I have met more than a handful of people who have a real chip on their shoulders about their own lack of formal education. I suspect it comes from insecurities on their own part.
And all these anecdotes maybe true, it is absolutely possible to be wildly successful without a degree. Some of us have our degrees for other reason than external measures of success too btw. But please, the same way I would not pick up a book on fixing your house and call myself an electrician, don't pretend that reading a book or paper makes you an expert in a subject area.
College and beyond isn't for everyone. That isnt a value judgement, its just a statement of fact. The same way, plumbing, or cooking or what ever, aren't for everyone.
If you work in academics, you will be looked down upon without a solid college education.
It's not just academics. Lack of a diploma will usually halt your career at a certain level. Some positions even call for an advanced degree. I worked hard doing four years at night with a full time day job that required lots of overtime. I was really entitled to a promotion and actually did the job already, I just wanted the money that went along with it. I was told that was not going to happen without the diploma.
I think there are more rewards, socially and monetarily, that come with the college degree. If it were not so, there would not be so many people pursuing it.
It is much harder for a blue collar worker to get a decent paying job than it is for a person with a college education. It is even harder for them to find employment. Look at the unemployment stats these days. So if the college educated get more money and better employment, it would seem to follow that there would also be a bit more social prestige.
On the other hand, I have always been intellectually curious and when I did not have my degree I in no way felt shunned by those with one. People just tend to gravitate toward others with the same proclivities.
I don't think people in the middle class make a distinction in whom they socialize with on the basis of how many years a person spent in school. I think as long as you are a decent sort and speak well and like to think people will accept you.
I think a lot of parents who struggled to get their children the best education that they could afford, to hope for a better life for their child would be a bit disappointed if their child married a person with minimal education. People are attracted to people with goals and who wish to do something with their lives. It is a good feeling to look back and realize that you've contributed to the world around you, more than a farm animal is capable of contributing, at least.
I have a masters, most of my friends have them or docs as well (most of us met at work) but we have several friends who only have AS or high school degrees. I do not know anyone who actually "looks down" on people for not having a college degree.
Most people I know do not really talk about their degrees at all, but might talk about their research or related topics but mostly we talk about other things. I have met more than a handful of people who have a real chip on their shoulders about their own lack of formal education. I suspect it comes from insecurities on their own part.
And all these anecdotes maybe true, it is absolutely possible to be wildly successful without a degree. Some of us have our degrees for other reason than external measures of success too btw. But please, the same way I would not pick up a book on fixing your house and call myself an electrician, don't pretend that reading a book or paper makes you an expert in a subject area.
College and beyond isn't for everyone. That isnt a value judgement, its just a statement of fact. The same way, plumbing, or cooking or what ever, aren't for everyone.
As you have said,I have run into more people who have a chip on their shoulders because they didn't graduate college more than the reverse.
I don't know if this relates to this thread or not... but I thought I'd share...
My husband works with this man who is super smart, and extremely good at what he does. He's been doing this particular kind of work for almost 20 years as a contractor. Well, there is an opening for a permanent position with my husbands company so this guy wanted to apply for it. He has a wife with cancer (it's currently in remission) and an older kid just starting college and so he has been looking for a full-time job with benefits, rather than relying on the contracting work. So he applied for the position. He had a great resume with all the jobs he's done listed, several letters of recommendation for other companies he has done work for, everybody where my husband works knows him and loves him. They all go out about once a month and hang out, have a beer or whatever. He's a great guy and everybody thought he was a shoe-in.
Well - the company has put his application on hold. Why? He doesn't have a college degree. He worked his way up, and holds extensive certifications that not many other people have in the office, but that's not good enough for the company anymore. They want people with a 4-year degree.
The last person they hired had a 4-year degree. He's this 25 year old just out of college newbie without any of the even very common certifications that most of the guys in the office have. He's also lazy, and refuses to do night, weekend, or on-call work. He puts in his 40 hours and he's done. He also surfs personal ads and does online shopping while at work, and take long lunches. I don't know why they keep him on, but my husband says that for whatever reason it's hard to fire people these days (this is what he is seeing at his company) unless they do something really stupid or criminal. (One guy was fired recently for going bezerk and attacking someone with his bicycle. lol It shouldn't be funny, but it kind of is.)
Anyway - I don't know if this relates to the thread or not... but it does seem that even if coworkers or peers won't judge you, potential employers can look down on you for not having a 4 year degree - even if you are an outstanding worker and very skilled at what you do and everybody loves you... the company might not care. All they know if you didn't earn a degree, so they don't have to give you the time of day.
I guess this is the kind of thing that would cause a deep resentment of kids with college degrees/education. And for some college degree educated, a sense of superiority. A loss all round.
After 20+ years in corporate dealing with all levels of education I'd say the janitors were the most level headed of the entire bunch.
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