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No one knows at 18 where they are going to be living at 40, or even 30, unless they're joining a monastery or something. I'm not saying regional schools are a bad idea, but if you end up out of your region, no one will have heard of it.
And, truly, overall, in my experience, it really doesn't matter much at all if that is the case, past securing that first job, and honestly, often not even then.
Granted, it really depends on where you are/what your field is and if the culture of that place or field is to be slaves to academic brands and ranking, but in many, many instances, it's really not gonna matter that much. It mostly ends up coming down to if you have a degree, if you can sell it, your skills, and yourself better than the applicants you're up against, and whether or not the person doing the hiring ever heard of St. TweedleDee's Holy Rosary University for Young Roman-Judeo-Lutheran-Methodist-Episcopalians ends up being of little import.
For most people, doing well at a quality regionally known school and being able to successfully market your skills is going to really be the best set of tools in your arsenal and isn't likely to harm most people who are not going into very specialized, competitive fields known for prioritizing academic branding.
And, truly, overall, in my experience, it really doesn't matter much at all if that is the case, past securing that first job, and honestly, often not even then.
Granted, it really depends on where you are/what your field is and if the culture of that place or field is to be slaves to academic brands and ranking, but in many, many instances, it's really not gonna matter that much. It mostly ends up coming down to if you have a degree, if you can sell it, your skills, and yourself better than the applicants you're up against, and whether or not the person doing the hiring ever heard of St. TweedleDee's Holy Rosary University for Young Roman-Judeo-Lutheran-Methodist-Episcopalians ends up being of little import.
For most people, doing well at a quality regionally known school and being able to successfully market your skills is going to really be the best set of tools in your arsenal and isn't likely to harm most people who are not going into very specialized, competitive fields known for prioritizing academic branding.
You think? toobusytoday just told us her husband mostly hires graduates of one college. And what makes a regional school "quality" if rankings are so immaterial? How do you know?
Like I said, it's just really subjective. As a grad of an academically rigorous yet only regionally known school who has easily found employment from graduation on in geographic areas where said school was completley unknown, this is my experience. Some places, some fields, name will matter. In many, it won't. Trust me, the fact that most people think you're sneezing when you say "Gustavus Adolphus" hasn't cost me a job yet. The fact that my record speaks for itself has gained me access to the professional opportunities I've attained. This isn't really that uncommon. Not every employer cares so much where you went, they care about your skills and abilities and fit more.
The formulas for USN&WR rankings have long been pretty subjective, and this is reasonably widely recognized. Ultimately, in securing that first job, successfully showing your expertise and why you're the person for the job is likely going to matter more than the branding of your school, most likely. And once you are in that intial job, obviously the work you do there and in future jobs is what holds far more import in future hirings than where you went, what you majored in, etc., for the most part. Depending, as noted, on where you are and what your field is.
Toobusytoday's husband may well hire mostly graduates from a school determined to be a feeder school for his company and/or industry. It happens. And people going into that work or aspiring to work for said company or industry likely know that. But he's one hiring manager (or fill-in-the-blank-with-apppropriate-title) for one employer. He's likely not the only, but there are many, obviously, where this is not the case.
For most people, doing well at a quality regionally known school and being able to successfully market your skills is going to really be the best set of tools in your arsenal and isn't likely to harm most people who are not going into very specialized, competitive fields known for prioritizing academic branding.
This is true, for the most part. When I worked for major companies in Minneapolis (hardly a corporate backwater) I was surprised at how few people had what I considered to be prestigious degrees. Quite a few of my co-workers were B-minus students from Mankato State (and it showed, but that’s another thread).
However, school rank really does makes a difference in super-star cities (Boston, San Francisco, DC and most of all, New York) and for elite, creative-class jobs (media, social-media, technology, any kind of design, advertising, journalism, fashion, etc. plus banking and law). As the OP mentioned some of these careers, consideration of school rank is more important than might otherwise be the case.
Yep, your earlier post was one I had in mind when noting that there are definitely select regions and fields where this is more prioritized than in most other venues.
That's of course not going to apply to just everyone (although it may the OP's child, from the sound of it...but not necessarily everyone who happens across the discussion).
Ultimately, I feel like wherever you choose to go, you're just best served to go the most academically rigorous route you can, and perform as well as you can, get as much out of it as you possibly can, and really learn how to apply that toward becoming the obvious candidate for the position of your choosing. Some places, you'll need the specialized degree from the specific school, but mostly, that will serve you well.
Like I said, it's just really subjective. As a grad of an academically rigorous yet only regionally known school who has easily found employment from graduation on in geographic areas where said school was completley unknown, this is my experience. Some places, some fields, name will matter. In many, it won't. Trust me, the fact that most people think you're sneezing when you say "Gustavus Adolphus" hasn't cost me a job yet. The fact that my record speaks for itself has gained me access to the professional opportunities I've attained. This isn't really that uncommon. Not every employer cares so much where you went, they care about your skills and abilities and fit more.
The formulas for USN&WR rankings have long been pretty subjective, and this is reasonably widely recognized. Ultimately, in securing that first job, successfully showing your expertise and why you're the person for the job is likely going to matter more than the branding of your school, most likely. And once you are in that intial job, obviously the work you do there and in future jobs is what holds far more import in future hirings than where you went, what you majored in, etc., for the most part. Depending, as noted, on where you are and what your field is.
Toobusytoday's husband may well hire mostly graduates from a school determined to be a feeder school for his company and/or industry. It happens. And people going into that work or aspiring to work for said company or industry likely know that. But he's one hiring manager (or fill-in-the-blank-with-apppropriate-title) for one employer. He's likely not the only, but there are many, obviously, where this is not the case.
Actually, I agree with you. The school in question is actually a highly ranked engineering school, just happens to be local and where the President graduated from and supports. My husbands company is quite small, i.e., no one would attend that college planning to work there. Other companies are the same way and you just can't attend a college hoping that the hiring manager will favor one certain college. That's why rankings are less important the skills you learn and can show.
This is true, for the most part. When I worked for major companies in Minneapolis (hardly a corporate backwater) I was surprised at how few people had what I considered to be prestigious degrees. Quite a few of my co-workers were B-minus students from Mankato State (and it showed, but that’s another thread).
However, school rank really does makes a difference in super-star cities (Boston, San Francisco, DC and most of all, New York) and for elite, creative-class jobs (media, social-media, technology, any kind of design, advertising, journalism, fashion, etc. plus banking and law). As the OP mentioned some of these careers, consideration of school rank is more important than might otherwise be the case.
Rankings play a part because people THINK they are important and for no other reason. Since you bring up MN, the most current winner of the Nobel Prize in physics did his Undergrad at U of MN-Duluth....good regional school, unless you follow DII football or hockey, probably never heard of it in NYC or Boston.
Someone asked for information about rankings of Lutheran colleges in the OP. I did what anyone could have done; I googled the US News Liberal Arts rankings (as most of these schools are liberal arts schools) and listed the Lutheran colleges in rank order. I also made an error about Susquehanna U. being a Lutheran college. Someone pointed out my error and I acknowledged it. Then someone else had to point out the error as well. I am well aware that any college ranking system is not perfect and have said so many times. I am also aware of "how to lie with statistics", esp. things like making small differences look large. (The "Places Rated" people do this, for any of you who post on city/state boards.) Just because someone's favorite college du jour isn't on one of those lists is no reason to try to discredit the rankings or the people who are supplying the information.
Colorado has Index scores based on the matrix for each of its state colleges. http://highered.colorado.gov/Publica...nt/i-partf.pdf Table 2: CCHE Index Scores for First-time Freshman Applicants
Institution Freshman Admissions Index
Adams State University 80 Colorado School of Mines 110 Colorado State University 101
Colorado State University – Pueblo 86
Fort Lewis College 92
Colorado Mesa University 85
Metropolitan State University of Denver 76 University of Colorado at Boulder 103
University of Colorado at Colorado Springs 92
University of Colorado at DHSC 93
University of Northern Colorado 94
Western State Colorado University 80
*Fort Lewis College’s index score for 2006 and 2007 was 86; in 2008 it increased to 92 pursuant to SB 05-194 and CCHE action on October 6, 2005.
**Colorado Mesa University’s index increased to 85 in summer 2007 pursuant to CCHE action on March 2, 2006.
Now, go look up the rankings for each of these colleges. You will see a correlation with the matrix scores and the school's ranking. There is even a joke, "What do CU (U of CO) students and CSU (Colorado State U.) have in common?" A: They all got in to CSU.
Look also at the number of students in the freshman class in the top 10% of their high school classes. At some of these schools, it's less than 10%. In other words, there are more bright students in a high school than in some of these colleges. At Metro State, the school with the lowest required matrix score, 5% of students were in the top 10% of their high school class; only 37% were in the top half! (2010 data)
Now some of these lower level schools may well provide what a student wants, and also provide an opportunity for kids to go to college who might not otherwise be able to go. Many people think the U of CO is a better school than Colorado School of Mines, for example, b/c CU offers many different majors; Mines is primarily an engineering school. Likewise, someone looking for agricultural programs, or fashion design, will look at CSU b/c they offer those programs and neither Mines nor CU does. The University of Northern Colorado is known for its education and music programs.
As for a hiring manager that mainly hires graduates of his own college, well yeah, I've seen that too. I recall of director of nursing at one hospital where I worked who did that. This was back during one of the more severe "nursing shortages" so she really wasn't preventing graduates of other colleges from getting jobs. If you had a pulse and a nursing license, you could usually get a job. However, graduates of her college were more likely to get a position in their desired area of nursing. She did once promote a graduate of her college to a head nurse position in pediatrics when this person had no pediatric nursing experience. I don't remember exactly how it all worked out as we moved away. However, there is nothing one can do about situations like that. I would say a degree from a good school might help. Interestingly, the school in question in this thread is described as a "highly ranked engineering school". (Emphasis mine) So do rankings count?
Somebody asked for the rankings and I took the time and effort to look them up FWIW.
The Lutheran colleges that I am familiar with are all fairly non-dom. You are not required to attend chapel, or do volunteer work for the church, or anything like that. I explained St. Olaf's policy on religion courses in another thread. Many of these courses are "comparative religion" courses, not theology.
And I appreciate it, Katiana.
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