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To go back to the original questions of this thread ...
I recently looked up someone I went to grad school with (we haven't been in touch for awhile). The grad program (Michigan) was top 3 in my field and most people who went were from elite backgrounds (I most definitely wasn't!). The woman I looked up was actually a close friend of mine when we were in Ann Arbor, but she left the program after her 3rd year when her husband got a prestigious legal clerkship (he was going to law school while she was in the Ph.D. program). They had a couple of kids and she never finished the program. Instead, she became a college consultant. (Before going to grad school, she had worked for several years for her very prestigious undergrad alma mater in their admissions office, and that was her main qualification.)
Apparently she's doing very well; on her web site she lists where her student clients have been placed, and they are mostly very elite places including ALL the Ivies. She also now has two staff members working for her; one is called a "Director of Essay Development." Note, I'm not suggesting that she's doing anything unethical or immoral or anything like that. Rather, I am arguing that the work that she does is simply more evidence of how upper-class students are advantaged over working-class and poor students, even when those economically-disadvantaged students are really bright and hard-working.
Whenever I read about how important college admissions essays are, I cringe, because I wonder how many of those essays were not written by the student at all.
To go back to the original questions of this thread ...
I recently looked up someone I went to grad school with (we haven't been in touch for awhile). The grad program (Michigan) was top 3 in my field and most people who went were from elite backgrounds (I most definitely wasn't!). The woman I looked up was actually a close friend of mine when we were in Ann Arbor, but she left the program after her 3rd year when her husband got a prestigious legal clerkship (he was going to law school while she was in the Ph.D. program). They had a couple of kids and she never finished the program. Instead, she became a college consultant. (Before going to grad school, she had worked for several years for her very prestigious undergrad alma mater in their admissions office, and that was her main qualification.)
Apparently she's doing very well; on her web site she lists where her student clients have been placed, and they are mostly very elite places including ALL the Ivies. She also now has two staff members working for her; one is called a "Director of Essay Development." Note, I'm not suggesting that she's doing anything unethical or immoral or anything like that. Rather, I am arguing that the work that she does is simply more evidence of how upper-class students are advantaged over working-class and poor students, even when those economically-disadvantaged students are really bright and hard-working.
Whenever I read about how important college admissions essays are, I cringe, because I wonder how many of those essays were not written by the student at all.
College counselors are big business these days because there are so many people out there, just like you see here, that think if you don't attend a "top" school you will be flipping burgers for the rest of your life. For some people they are a good thing. For the few I know that used them, they were a VERY good thing, not so much that they helped them get into an Ivy but more the fact that they got the parents to be more reasonable with their expectations and in the end had the kids applying to schools that were appropriate for them. Teenagers being teenagers have been known to not listen to their parents on occasion too and a college counselor can help them through the application process and kids tend to listen to them better.
College counselors are big business these days because there are so many people out there,just like you see here, that think if you don't attend a "top" school you will be flipping burgers for the rest of your life. For some people they are a good thing. For the few I know that used them, they were a VERY good thing, not so much that they helped them get into an Ivy but more the fact that they got the parents to be more reasonable with their expectations and in the end had the kids applying to schools that were appropriate for them. Teenagers being teenagers have been known to not listen to their parents on occasion too and a college counselor can help them through the application process and kids tend to listen to them better.
Look at how the Ivy League undergrads place people into six business schools (Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford, UPenn, U of Chicago, Columbia). This tabulation is based on data mining of social media through mainly LinkedIn with a large sample size. I do not have data on Northwestern or UC-Berkeley making up the consensus "M9" most prestigious b-schools.
The fast slope and common story is that you go to an elite undergrad, then go onto a top consulting or i-banking firm. After a few years, you enroll at an elite business school. The recipe to become upper class has been revealed. You can find the source of data at http://poetsandquants.com/.
Getting into an Ivy League undergrad pays dividends years later in your career. Clearly, a lot is at stake. The bootcamp in high school does mean something.
Harvard 192 UPenn 183
Stanford 117 Yale 113
Princeton 101
Duke 95 Columbia 89
UC-Berkeley 84 Dartmouth 80
Georgetown 79
Northwestern 67 Cornell 59
Indian Institute of Tech 58
Virginia 58 Brown 54
MIT 54
Michigan: 49
NYU 42
UCLA 41
Texas-Austin 40
West Point 29
USC 25
Boston College 24
Williams 24
BYU 23
Illinois 22
Look at how the Ivy League undergrads place people into six business schools (Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford, UPenn, U of Chicago, Columbia). This tabulation is based on data mining of social media through mainly LinkedIn with a large sample size. I do not have data on Northwestern or UC-Berkeley making up the consensus "M9" most prestigious b-schools.
The fast slope and common story is that you go to an elite undergrad, then go onto a top consulting or i-banking firm. After a few years, you enroll at an elite business school. The recipe to become upper class has been revealed. You can find the source of data at http://poetsandquants.com/.
Harvard 192 UPenn 183
Stanford 117 Yale 113
Princeton 101
Duke 95 Columbia 89
UC-Berkeley 84 Dartmouth 80
Georgetown 79
Northwestern 67 Cornell 59
Indian Institute of Tech 58
Virginia 58 Brown 54
MIT 54
Michigan: 49
NYU 42
UCLA 41
Texas-Austin 40
West Point 29
USC 25
Boston College 24
Williams 24
BYU 23
Illinois 22
I'll be honest. That's shocking to me. That is just pure, unadulterated shameless discrimination based on school prestige. God, I'm glad I didn't go to B-school.
OTOH, I'm glad to see my school really high up there.
I'll be honest. That's shocking to me. That is just pure, unadulterated shameless discrimination based on school prestige
without seeing the application pool or statistics about how many folks applied from those schools and others, it's impossible to say that
i'm not saying it isn't happening, but that's pure unadulterated jumping to conclusions and not considering alternatives
moreover, i'd wager a lot of those students started out as upper middle class as children. so it can hardly be called a "recipe to become upper class". more like a status quo
Why not work a little less hard, enjoy life and learning, attend a non-Ivy, choose a career you really love, find a job and make money while raising children, reading books, traveling, learning how to paint or cook, etc...? In summary, exchange some of the hoop jumping for real enjoyment in just having a normal life? People can be just as successful without an ivy league education, yet maybe live with less pressure. The whole thing is such an artificial problem, don't you think?
Why not work a little less hard, enjoy life and learning, attend a non-Ivy, choose a career you really love, find a job and make money while raising children, reading books, traveling, learning how to paint or cook, etc...? In summary, exchange some of the hoop jumping for real enjoyment in just having a normal life? People can be just as successful without an ivy league education, yet maybe live with less pressure. The whole thing is such an artificial problem, don't you think?
If you look at admission stats, Ivies are much more selective than most state schools. Often parents spend an arm and a leg to get their kids into the right private high school in order to gain enrollment into Ivy's. Kids kill themselves taking every AP course offered to make 4.5 GPAs, often at the expense of a social life or any real enjoyment in the subject matter. Kids are literally killing themselves in Asia if they don't get into the right college. Then the workplace is highly competitive, and those adults end up pushing their own lids to the brink (study and music lessons at the exclusion of everything else). When does it end? Why not just get off this treadmill?
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