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Old 08-18-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: NY/LA
4,664 posts, read 4,569,001 times
Reputation: 4140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by west seattle gal View Post
If you look at admission stats, Ivies are much more selective than most state schools. Often parents spend an arm and a leg to get their kids into the right private high school in order to gain enrollment into Ivy's. Kids kill themselves taking every AP course offered to make 4.5 GPAs, often at the expense of a social life or any real enjoyment in the subject matter. Kids are literally killing themselves in Asia if they don't get into the right college. Then the workplace is highly competitive, and those adults end up pushing their own lids to the brink (study and music lessons at the exclusion of everything else). When does it end? Why not just get off this treadmill?
The narrative that you described is just one of the ways that an academically ambitious upbringing can take you. I've seen many examples of another trajectory: Family comes to the United States as immigrants and live in lower-middle to middle class neighborhoods. Parents emphasize education. Children make it into top-tier undergrad schools (often Ivies), then go on to medical school, dental school, law school, etc. Children then complete their training (residency, fellowship, etc.) and then go on to work in stimulating and well-compensated jobs, and now they take the vacations and live the good life that you described. I've personally seen this played out in multiple families, where in one generation, they go from immigrants in the lower-middle class to the top 1% - 2%. It's not easy and there are no guarantees, but education is still the most accessible path to class mobility.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:50 AM
 
12,101 posts, read 17,148,875 times
Reputation: 15778
Quote:
Originally Posted by west seattle gal View Post
Why not work a little less hard, enjoy life and learning, attend a non-Ivy, choose a career you really love, find a job and make money while raising children, reading books, traveling, learning how to paint or cook, etc...? In summary, exchange some of the hoop jumping for real enjoyment in just having a normal life? People can be just as successful without an ivy league education, yet maybe live with less pressure. The whole thing is such an artificial problem, don't you think?
There's a lot of merit to what you say.

When do you stop pushing the boulder up the hill or desperately trying to advance in your career?

I, myself, would love a life of relaxation, with a decent, stress-free 9-5 job, living in a small split level in a middle class neighborhood.

Unfortunately, with income inequity, lack of job security, and housing inflation, just having a 'college degree from somewhere' and doing something you 'kinda like' is not really enough these days.

It could be if you are lucky. It might not be if you are unlucky.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:41 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,539,124 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by west seattle gal View Post
If you look at admission stats, Ivies are much more selective than most state schools. Often parents spend an arm and a leg to get their kids into the right private high school in order to gain enrollment into Ivy's. Kids kill themselves taking every AP course offered to make 4.5 GPAs, often at the expense of a social life or any real enjoyment in the subject matter. Kids are literally killing themselves in Asia if they don't get into the right college. Then the workplace is highly competitive, and those adults end up pushing their own lids to the brink (study and music lessons at the exclusion of everything else). When does it end? Why not just get off this treadmill?
You seem to dismiss that some students are just that much more talented than others. Not to mention most kids who get into the Ivy League schools have parents who make well north of 150k a year which enables this spending on education.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:55 AM
 
5,500 posts, read 10,539,124 times
Reputation: 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
There's a lot of merit to what you say.

When do you stop pushing the boulder up the hill or desperately trying to advance in your career?

I, myself, would love a life of relaxation, with a decent, stress-free 9-5 job, living in a small split level in a middle class neighborhood.

Unfortunately, with income inequity, lack of job security, and housing inflation, just having a 'college degree from somewhere' and doing something you 'kinda like' is not really enough these days.

It could be if you are lucky. It might not be if you are unlucky.
Well it is very easy to keep spending as you earn more. The question is when is your salary enough for the lifestyle you expect to live? Instead of asking for a raise if you are living below meams you could ask for the same salary at less hours.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:07 PM
 
1,950 posts, read 3,536,277 times
Reputation: 2770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zero View Post
The narrative that you described is just one of the ways that an academically ambitious upbringing can take you. I've seen many examples of another trajectory: Family comes to the United States as immigrants and live in lower-middle to middle class neighborhoods. Parents emphasize education. Children make it into top-tier undergrad schools (often Ivies), then go on to medical school, dental school, law school, etc. Children then complete their training (residency, fellowship, etc.) and then go on to work in stimulating and well-compensated jobs, and now they take the vacations and live the good life that you described. I've personally seen this played out in multiple families, where in one generation, they go from immigrants in the lower-middle class to the top 1% - 2%. It's not easy and there are no guarantees, but education is still the most accessible path to class mobility.
Yes, I've seen this happen, too. Those are inspiring stories, nothing wrong with that trajectory. Really just addressing the tiger moms and families. There are plenty of immigrants who go to state colleges and then medical school, too. But hopefully the drive is to serve or find fulfilling work, and not simply to endlessly compete like an automaton, which I have also seen. One day those folks wake up feeling very unhappy and like they have spent their entire lives going through the motions like someone else's puppet (usually a parent).
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
460 posts, read 983,972 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by west seattle gal View Post
If you look at admission stats, Ivies are much more selective than most state schools. Often parents spend an arm and a leg to get their kids into the right private high school in order to gain enrollment into Ivy's. Kids kill themselves taking every AP course offered to make 4.5 GPAs, often at the expense of a social life or any real enjoyment in the subject matter. Kids are literally killing themselves in Asia if they don't get into the right college. Then the workplace is highly competitive, and those adults end up pushing their own lids to the brink (study and music lessons at the exclusion of everything else). When does it end? Why not just get off this treadmill?
We live in a weak economy and have to work harder to maintain financial stability. The economy has not been the same since around the year 2000.

It would be nice to get off the treadmill. But living in SF has its perks and I have to work hard to stay here.
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