How important are AP and honors classes for college acceptance/for major? (SAT, degrees)
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It's the beginning of my daughter's sophomore year at high school and she finally thinks she knows what direction she wants to go in college. She wants to major in applied mathematics. She's torn between wanting to be a data science or do something with financial analysis and applied math is applicable to both. She looked at the course load for the state university and likes the classes too. Plus, she's bought herself Algebra books and PSAT prep books and has been doing math all summer for "fun" and to "stay sharp" (her words).
So now that she has a direction, I am starting to wonder about her courses and will they impact her acceptance to schools and possible scholarships.
Last year, all her core courses except Geometry were honors and she got all A's. This year, for her sophomore year, she is again in honors (Chemistry and English) and she's in AP World History (which will be a college credit if she does well). But Algebra 2 is just regular again.
The reason she's not in honors math isn't her grades, but it's because of one standardized score from 8th grade. Her Geometry teacher from last year was the one who needed to recommend her for honors and didn't. That teacher was torn because my daughter seemed to be doing well in Geometry but her standardized score from Algebra 1 (from 8th grade) was a 450 and they usually recommend a minimum of 470 for honors. These recommendations for honors classes needed to be made halfway though the school year, so the teacher had no idea where my daughter would end up with Geometry. The teacher said it was a tough call and played it safe.
By the way, I think part of the reason why the test score wasn't as high is because my daughter skipped a grade of math and went right into Algebra in middle school. But she ended up with an A in Algebra 1. She got an A in geometry too (98%) and aced the final with a 100%. At the end of the year, the teacher commented to my daughter maybe she should have been in honors Algebra 2, but by then, it was too late.
So guess who she has for Algebra 2, the same teacher! So the teacher knows the story (and seems to like my daughter too from the conversations we've had). I plan to talk to the teacher at parent night and mention my daughter's intention to be an applied math major in college and could she please keep an eye on her this year for possible recommendation for honors next year or maybe even AP classes. I think there is honors pre-calc but also AP statistics (which my daughter wants to take) that she can go into straight from Algebra 2 with teacher recommendation.
But will not having been in honors classes all along hurt her chances of acceptance in colleges for an applied math major? And if so, what can she do? Classes at a community college next summer? Or am I just a worried parent who is overthinking things as I often do.
What's the rush?
Attend a JC as soon as she feels comfortable.
After she graduates HS, live at home and continue at JC until she needs to attend a university.
Transfer to local university and live at home. She can work part time for beer and gas money.
Take the $100K or so you'd otherwise have spent at a long distance football U and stick it in a S&P500 Index fund and watch it double every 7 or 8 years. Besides, most employers couldn't care less where you attended, especially for STEM.
Also, has she considered engineering with the math aptitude? A lot more jobs (and she'd be the Queen Bee in all the classes). Plus companies are DYING to hire female engineers and colleges are DYING to admit female engineers.
Finally, I would expect her to get the answers to these questions from her school pals, dozens of whom have gone through the same process, at the same school, with the same norms and teachers and policies.
Also, has she considered engineering with the math aptitude? A lot more jobs (and she'd be the Queen Bee in all the classes). Plus companies are DYING to hire female engineers and colleges are DYING to admit female engineers.
Being female and in engineering is not quite the open door it used to be. I have a daughter at community college in Irvine, CA who is considering engineering. She reports that 75% of the math and science students in her classes are female, so there is no dearth of them. Our friend's daughter was recently accepted at UC Irvine as a freshman in mechanical engineering, but she applied to three other UC schools (UCLA, UC Santa Barbara, UC San Luis Obispo) and either was not accepted at them, or was accepted in her second-choice major but not engineering.
So by all means your daughter should pursue math and/or engineering if she desires, but not expect that everyone will be beating her door down because she's a female STEM student.
Everything else you said, though, is good advice. You can save a ton of money by starting at a community college / JC and living at home as long as possible.
Honors classes are nice for boosting your GPA (if you get an A). AP classes are great for earning some college credit ahead of time. Calculus and Statistics in high school are usually AP classes, anyway, and lower-level math is not. None of that is strictly necessary for university admission; there are so many other factors.
It's the beginning of my daughter's sophomore year at high school and she finally thinks she knows what direction she wants to go in college. She wants to major in applied mathematics. She's torn between wanting to be a data science or do something with financial analysis and applied math is applicable to both. She looked at the course load for the state university and likes the classes too. Plus, she's bought herself Algebra books and PSAT prep books and has been doing math all summer for "fun" and to "stay sharp" (her words).
So now that she has a direction, I am starting to wonder about her courses and will they impact her acceptance to schools and possible scholarships.
Last year, all her core courses except Geometry were honors and she got all A's. This year, for her sophomore year, she is again in honors (Chemistry and English) and she's in AP World History (which will be a college credit if she does well). But Algebra 2 is just regular again.
The reason she's not in honors math isn't her grades, but it's because of one standardized score from 8th grade. Her Geometry teacher from last year was the one who needed to recommend her for honors and didn't. That teacher was torn because my daughter seemed to be doing well in Geometry but her standardized score from Algebra 1 (from 8th grade) was a 450 and they usually recommend a minimum of 470 for honors. These recommendations for honors classes needed to be made halfway though the school year, so the teacher had no idea where my daughter would end up with Geometry. The teacher said it was a tough call and played it safe.
By the way, I think part of the reason why the test score wasn't as high is because my daughter skipped a grade of math and went right into Algebra in middle school. But she ended up with an A in Algebra 1. She got an A in geometry too (98%) and aced the final with a 100%. At the end of the year, the teacher commented to my daughter maybe she should have been in honors Algebra 2, but by then, it was too late.
So guess who she has for Algebra 2, the same teacher! So the teacher knows the story (and seems to like my daughter too from the conversations we've had). I plan to talk to the teacher at parent night and mention my daughter's intention to be an applied math major in college and could she please keep an eye on her this year for possible recommendation for honors next year or maybe even AP classes. I think there is honors pre-calc but also AP statistics (which my daughter wants to take) that she can go into straight from Algebra 2 with teacher recommendation.
But will not having been in honors classes all along hurt her chances of acceptance in colleges for an applied math major? And if so, what can she do? Classes at a community college next summer? Or am I just a worried parent who is overthinking things as I often do.
Thanks!
No. The final 2 yrs of HS count the most. Sounds like she'll do fine.
I appreciate the money saving tips, but what I really wanted to know is if her courses in high school would impact her being accepted for her major at college and, if so, what can be done if anything.
By the way, the AP class counts as a college credit. Per her plan, she will knock out about once semester of college in high school by taking various AP classes. So that will save us money. We are considering the local university as well (although I haven't checked to see if they even allow freshman to live off campus or not. I know the university I went to required freshmen to live on campus).
She reports that 75% of the math and science students in her classes are female, so there is no dearth of them.
Maybe a lot of those co-eds are health science, bio, math education, etc majors: Irvine & South OC has lots of biotech: J&J, Applied Medical, Braun, Edwards, etc.
I appreciate the money saving tips, but what I really wanted to know is if her courses in high school would impact her being accepted for her major at college and, if so, what can be done if anything.
By the way, the AP class counts as a college credit. Per her plan, she will knock out about once semester of college in high school by taking various AP classes. So that will save us money. We are considering the local university as well (although I haven't checked to see if they even allow freshman to live off campus or not. I know the university I went to required freshmen to live on campus).
The more AP passes the better. Good for GPA and if you pass the test, good for knocking out college courses. Of course SAT and ACT are important too and with the new "adversity" SAT coming around in 2020 if your family is wealthy or "privileged" it might be better to take the ACT so you aren't discriminated against.
Some thoughts based on how things worked for our daughter (Physics).
a. She took AP Calc, APUSH, and AP everything in high school. Where it helped in college was she was able to use AP credits for some of her gen ed subjects which mean one less class each of her first three semesters (= less stress and more time for the classes that count). But her university only accepted a limited number of AP credits and didn't accept them in the degree program courses. Where AP math classes helped was her being better prepared for the initial calc classes. Enabled her to do better and start her off with a better GPA.
b. Being a female in physics enabled her to get some additional scholarship money at her university. May vary by university however.
c. I'm not a fan of the "CC and cheapest local college" philosophy to save money. You have to look at total cost and ROI. In many cases, esp if going into a STEM field, the local CC won't cover the required curriculum for the specific degree. Meaning you spend two years at CC and then still spend three to four years at a university because of course sequences and prereqs required for many STEM degrees. The CC path may work for gen eds, but doesn't always match up for STEM programs.
d. Likewise, I'd really look at what schools provide her chosen degree field and what the outcomes are for those universities. They just aren't the same. In STEM the major R1 and R2 universities simply provide better resources, and more research opportunities leading to better outcomes. https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/ and https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/ provide some good data on how financial outcomes differ between universities for the same degree. It's kind of eye opening.
I appreciate the money saving tips, but what I really wanted to know is if her courses in high school would impact her being accepted for her major at college and, if so, what can be done if anything.
By the way, the AP class counts as a college credit. Per her plan, she will knock out about once semester of college in high school by taking various AP classes. So that will save us money. We are considering the local university as well (although I haven't checked to see if they even allow freshman to live off campus or not. I know the university I went to required freshmen to live on campus).
She could take classes at the local university in her senior year of HS. They do allow that, usually. Check with the academic counselor at the HS.
She could take classes at the local university in her senior year of HS. They do allow that, usually. Check with the academic counselor at the HS.
Even if allowed, it will probably be a lot more expensive than a community college AND more of a hassle (parking, registering, etc).
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