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WalkingLiberty1919D, keep in mind that "applied math" is just the title of a major at some universities. Neither employers or grad schools care much about the title of one's major. Yes, for some employers, the title might be a quick screen, but usually not. What matters more is the skills of the applicant.
It's sad the school is so inflexible. My D's was not. It was large, which just increased the scheduling flexibility.
Note too that admissions committees at unis are much more focused on the last two years of HS, and are well aware of the GPU computations of many HS that give kids more than a 4.0. You can bet these scores are heavily discounted.
The reason I started this thread is because my daughter decided she wanted to be an applied math major when she goes to college. She's always loved math and she skipped a year of math to get to Algebra 2 in her sophomore year so she's ahead, but she wondered if she should petition to be in honors Algebra 2 instead to get on a better track/so colleges might accept her.
I'm not at all downplaying your daughter's interest in math and her drive--I think that's all great--but just thought I would mention that being in Algebra II as a sophomore is really not unusual. Two of my three children took Algebra I in eighth grade, Geometry as freshmen, Algebra II as sophomores (actually my son is still a freshman, but the expectation is that he will be in Algebra II next year). It's slightly ahead of average but based on the student makeup of classes they are/were in, I would estimate that 25-30% of kids are on this track. Maybe it depends on the state and school district, but that's how it is here.
In any case, Algebra 2 is Algebra 2. Your daughter should be able to go on to the next math course (Precalculus or Trigonometry, whatever your school calls it) equally well from either a regular or Honors course. I'm not convinced that Honors classes are all that special other than allowing the student to raise their GPA.
The reason I started this thread is because my daughter decided she wanted to be an applied math major when she goes to college.
Your daughter is a sophomore. She may change her mind several times between now and college matriculation, then change it again in college. Just sayin'.
It's the LAW in my state (since 1991), at least (2) other states have official programs doing the same (not all are free, as is my state)
Update on the Running Start 1.20 FTE Limitation for 2019–20
Bulletin 067-17 - School Apportionment and Financial Services/System and School Improvement
Clarifying Guidance on the 1.20 Running Start Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Limitation
RSEVF form (Running Start Enrollment Verification)
SQEAF (Spring Quarter Enrollment Adjustment Form)
Running Start is intended to provide students a program option consisting of attendance at certain institutions of higher education and the simultaneous earning of high school and college/university credit. Running Start was initiated by the Legislature as a component of the 1990 parent and student Learning by Choice Law.
at least 70% of my High Tech coworkers kids do it every yr, most of our kid's peers did it (Homeschoolers)
I know at least 100+ friends kids doing it today, and I am from a very small town in the corner of a very large )populous and professional career) state. None are genius'... it is just very common to do (and a great option for students.)
https://www.k12.wa.us/running-start https://admit.washington.edu/apply/running-start/ (Notes 87,129 CR hrs transferred from RS to UW (Alone)) during 2017 (UW is NOT the favorite / preferred transfer from RS... ) Washington state is home to six public four-year colleges and universities and more than 300 independent colleges, universities and career schools. Many in WA RS students enter U's as full Jrs, Why wouldn't you (since it is FREE!?)
So it's a "dual enrollment" program in your state?
Where one needs to be a HS Jr or Sr with no less than a 2.5 GPA to participate in (but that 2.5 GPA can be challenged). What's a 2.5...A "C" average?
Hey, that's great. But it's not the normal. In most high schools one won't be recommended to take an AP class with a 2.5 GPA. There are minimum requirements.
So you really can't compare a child in a HS who is worried about taking Honors and/or AP classes in order to get in to a good college to those who live in your state (or the other states) that take advantage of this "Running Start" program.
You also can't assume that "contracts" with colleges, because one took a few CC classes over the summer or two years worth after graduating from HS exist.
Which 4 year colleges did your kids attend that gave them 2 full years worth of credits through this program?
The ones tied in to the program?
Could your kids or their friends or your friend's kids gone to a 4 year and still been admitted as a Jr?
Update. The answer is no, they won't move her into honors. They aren't allowing any class changes at all. My daughter is a little upset and worried. But I told her it's just once class, it shouldn't matter too much. I think she and I feed off each other's anxiety so I am trying to relax like Tnff said. After all, there is nothing we can do now.
We will just plan for the future. It looks like she could do honors pre-calc and trig next year as well as AP statistics. She could then take AP Calc AB in her senior year (none of the classes are offered as summer classes).
She is the one who has a little more "Ivy fever." Her top picks for colleges are "Public Ivies" with high standards to get in. She's pretty much on track for that too with grades, classes, and if her PSAT score is any indication (although it is early, she's only a sophomore).
I almost wonder if it wouldn't be better if she got into a 2nd tier college or university (more potential financial aid if she's public Ivy material but picks a 2nd tier school). Her dad said he's not helping with college and our plan for her to join ROTC is out because she has asthma, so it's all on my shoulders. I have $25k saved up in a 529, but that won't be enough. I am looking at some deep budget cuts and she's looking at loans if she can't get other aid.
Very important! However, it isn't the end of the world.
Select a college or uni that she LOVEs. Look for a good fit. Academically, socially and in other ways.
Her father is not helpful. And he is unrealistic. Asthma and ROTC are not a good match.
Why is she stuck on a "public Ivy"? There are SO many private, liberal arts colleges with untapped money. "Liberal Arts" does not mean that she can not major in Math or Science. Or even, a career oriented science major.
Depending upon where you live, there are liberal arts colleges that could give her a free ride.
Public colleges are not always the best choice. They are not generous when it comes to money.
If you want some ideas, send me a DM. There are so many variables involved here.
WalkingLiberty, you leave me almost speechless. Your daughter is a young rising sophomore? What does she say about all of this? What are her goals?
If your daughter is so focused on APs, tell her she can study on her own and take the exams. She doesn't need permission from the school, to my knowledge. Several classmates of my own daughter did exactly that. Otherwise, back off and let her explore learning and life, which is what adolescence is for.
My daughter's high school was very flexible regarding who took what. Yours sounds much less so. However, it was also true that our local HS did no hand holding for kids over their heads. Yours may be more supportive and protecting? Remember that one role of schools is to protect kids from their parents. (I'm exaggerating a bit, but only slightly).
One of the best parts of US higher education is its tolerance of late bloomers. Unlike many other countries, including much of Europe, you don't need to be on the fast track in HS to achieve great things. One of our presidential candidates is a great example of this, but folks that struggled in, or even dropped out of HS go on to elite post grad places regularly. It all depends on the person, their talent and motivation. Conversely, brilliant HS students "opt out" of the fast track, too, and go on to satisfying lives of "less" achievement. (Not to mention that much study has shown that "achievement" and happiness are not well correlated)
I agree with all of this.
When one attends college "knowing what you want to be when you grow up" is NOT a prerequisite" A desire to learn IS.
Private colleges are often so much more well endowed and generous than state universities. There are SO MANY well respected schools that are neither Ivies nor Flagship state universities.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info
So it's a "dual enrollment" program in your state?
....
Could your kids or their friends or your friend's kids gone to a 4 year and still been admitted as a Jr?
Of course they DID (as do most who are intent to get full Jr Status while attending FT college (for FREE) instead of HS (as long as they had a transfer contract for a specified Degree program at receiving U)
You are gravely mistaken... Nearly all the kids I know in "WA State Running Start " enter U as FULL jr by the time they finish HS. (both in-state schools and out (WA shares reciprocity with ID, AK, OR and other states). Several in our Homeschool group went on to med and law school (well ahead of peers.)
Yup. nearly 1/2 the RS students in WA enter FT college (CC or U) (for free) as HS Jrs, and as FULL JR Status at U's by the time they are HS grad equivalent. Many choose NOT to get a HS diploma, because they hold full AA / AAS degrees a month or more before HS graduation.
Seldom do FT RS students take any classes at their 'declared' HS (I.e no dual enrollment as far as classes, only for tuition reimbursement). But they need to 'declare' a HS (who forwards the 'college tuition equivalent' to the college), tho they will not 'attend' a HS. One of mine wanted to letter in sports, & did so in 6 sports without attending (1) class at HS.
3 of my bosses were RS grads, and all had graduated U pre age 20. (available free since 1991).
It is very simple to pass a College entrance exam in 8th or 9th grade (required for taking 100+ level courses in Running Start). Pre- 100 level courses are not paid for by WA State under Running Start, nor would they be counted as equivalency when under University 'Transfer Contract'.
Running Start works fine for 10's of thousands of HS students (to enter U as a FULL JUNIOR without ANY extra course work... no summers / no special courses / no on-line courses, no self pay (All tuition is covered by declared HS (while RS student is HS age))
Note too that admissions committees at unis are much more focused on the last two years of HS, and are well aware of the GPU computations of many HS that give kids more than a 4.0. You can bet these scores are heavily discounted.
No, they are not discounted. Admissions staff puts more weight on honors and AP classes, even when the high school doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot
In any case, Algebra 2 is Algebra 2. Your daughter should be able to go on to the next math course (Precalculus or Trigonometry, whatever your school calls it) equally well from either a regular or Honors course. I'm not convinced that Honors classes are all that special other than allowing the student to raise their GPA.
Honors courses are typically different from the regular courses. They cover more material in more depth. It is possible to jump from regular to honors on the math track but often the student will have to learn material in a hurry that everyone else learned last year to make up the difference. For instance, a regular algebra 2 class will cover algebra 2, but an honors algebra 2 will often get deep into trigonometry and pre-calculus concepts by the end of the spring semester.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Your daughter is a sophomore. She may change her mind several times between now and college matriculation, then change it again in college. Just sayin'.
That's true... but this mom(?) is not doing anything wrong by making sure the daughter is on track for what she says she wants NOW. Sophomore year is when you're supposed to start thinking about what you want to major in and start planning out your remaining classes accordingly. Of course kids may always change their mind later but you deal with that when/if it happens.
Kids often change majors, but the idea is to apply to college fully prepared to study whatever major you say you want to try FIRST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99
If your daughter is so focused on APs, tell her she can study on her own and take the exams. She doesn't need permission from the school, to my knowledge. Several classmates of my own daughter did exactly that. Otherwise, back off and let her explore learning and life, which is what adolescence is for.
This is very true. OP,if your daughter wants to, she can always self study and sit for the AP Calc BC exam when the time comes. It's up to her. She'll learn AB anyway (which is the equivalent of Calculus 1). BC is the equivalent of Calc 1 and 2. There's a lot of good options homeschoolers use if she wants to teach herself Calc 2.
Of course they DID (as do most who are intent to get full Jr Status while attending FT college (for FREE) instead of HS (as long as they had a transfer contract for a specified Degree program at receiving U)
You are gravely mistaken... Nearly all the kids I know in "WA State Running Start " enter U as FULL jr by the time they finish HS. (both in-state schools and out (WA shares reciprocity with ID, AK, OR and other states). Several in our Homeschool group went on to med and law school (well ahead of peers.)
Yup. nearly 1/2 the RS students in WA enter FT college (CC or U) (for free) as HS Jrs, and as FULL JR Status at U's by the time they are HS grad equivalent. Many choose NOT to get a HS diploma, because they hold full AA / AAS degrees a month or more before HS graduation.
Seldom do FT RS students take any classes at their 'declared' HS (I.e no dual enrollment as far as classes, only for tuition reimbursement). But they need to 'declare' a HS (who forwards the 'college tuition equivalent' to the college), tho they will not 'attend' a HS. One of mine wanted to letter in sports, & did so in 6 sports without attending (1) class at HS.
3 of my bosses were RS grads, and all had graduated U pre age 20. (available free since 1991).
It is very simple to pass a College entrance exam in 8th or 9th grade (required for taking 100+ level courses in Running Start). Pre- 100 level courses are not paid for by WA State under Running Start, nor would they be counted as equivalency when under University 'Transfer Contract'.
Running Start works fine for 10's of thousands of HS students (to enter U as a FULL JUNIOR without ANY extra course work... no summers / no special courses / no on-line courses, no self pay (All tuition is covered by declared HS (while RS student is HS age))
Please post some documentation of all of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
No, they are not discounted. Admissions staff puts more weight on honors and AP classes, even when the high school doesn't.
Honors courses are typically different from the regular courses. They cover more material in more depth. It is possible to jump from regular to honors on the math track but often the student will have to learn material in a hurry that everyone else learned last year to make up the difference. For instance, a regular algebra 2 class will cover algebra 2, but an honors algebra 2 will often get deep into trigonometry and pre-calculus concepts by the end of the spring semester.
That's true... but this mom(?) is not doing anything wrong by making sure the daughter is on track for what she says she wants NOW. Sophomore year is when you're supposed to start thinking about what you want to major in and start planning out your remaining classes accordingly. Of course kids may always change their mind later but you deal with that when/if it happens.
Kids often change majors, but the idea is to apply to college fully prepared to study whatever major you say you want to try FIRST.
This is very true. OP,if your daughter wants to, she can always self study and sit for the AP Calc BC exam when the time comes. It's up to her. She'll learn AB anyway (which is the equivalent of Calculus 1). BC is the equivalent of Calc 1 and 2. There's a lot of good options homeschoolers use if she wants to teach herself Calc 2.
Welp, even before you gave me your little lecture, I had quoted your post because I disagree with the red. I got two kids through college. You're talking down to me (and the other posters) especially with the line in blue.
Now to the red "Honors" and AP courses are supposed to be different from regular courses. In application, they're not always, especially in higher math courses, which everything past Algebra I is. It's been a while since my kids were in HS (youngest graduated in 2005), so I don't remember all the details but I do remember the kids talking about it. I even posted about it here on CD but I doubt if I could ever find the post again.
I have worked with the program for over 15 yrs (as a CC instructor)
My kids were RS ambassadors (presenting RS to parents and students state wide)
the point: How important are AP and honors classes for college acceptance/for major?
Not important, why bother? Just attend college instead of HS.
You will have a college guidance counselor for registration.
Only take courses that apply to your declared major.
Very simple, has been done for decades by kids far younger than HS.
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