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Welp, even before you gave me your little lecture, I had quoted your post because I disagree with the red. I got two kids through college. You're talking down to me (and the other posters) especially with the line in blue.
Now to the red "Honors" and AP courses are supposed to be different from regular courses. In application, they're not always, especially in higher math courses, which everything past Algebra I is. It's been a while since my kids were in HS (youngest graduated in 2005), so I don't remember all the details but I do remember the kids talking about it. I even posted about it here on CD but I doubt if I could ever find the post again.
I wasn't trying to talk down to you. I thought I was just talking. **shrugs**
I didn't say always with concern to honors classes. I said typically. I say that because I've seen the differences in preparation across different high schools in my career, and I've evaluated a lot of college applications. Your mileage may vary, of course. But the fact I disagree doesn't automatically mean I'm lecturing you.
I mean I can if you want me to though LOL. I like lecturing anonymous internet posters while procrastinating at work. That was just a little joke, don't get mad.
We have a similar program in my state to what StealthRabbit is talking about. BUT I don't know many kids who are mature enough to handle going into college as Juniors. I also don't know that many who are really, really for sure set on what they want to do at that age either. Those last couple years of high school seem to be when they start to figure this out, and even then many of them change their minds. It's a huge, life altering decision in many cases. Also, for our state, I am not sure how the flagship uni feels about it. They are very clear that for having an attractive application they would much rather see you take APs and honors classes at your school than classes at community college. Community college classes count as a regular high school class, the AP classes are weighted. Also, The dual enrollment program, which has been available from 9th grade on is being changed to 11th and 12th grade only with limits on how many credits can be taken.
I certainly know kids who have gone the dual enrollment route. They all seem to start college at smaller institutions with hopes to transfer at some point to the state flagship. They also seem to be doing something their parents pushed rather than what they had a burning desire to do. Just my .02. Clearly, Stealth's kids are the exception when you look at their list of accolades.
I am very glad my kids did the AP and Honors route. They were ready to start college when they got there and they are doing exceptionally well. There is no one correct road for everyone.
I wasn't trying to talk down to you. I thought I was just talking. **shrugs**
I didn't say always with concern to honors classes. I said typically. I say that because I've seen the differences in preparation across different high schools in my career, and I've evaluated a lot of college applications. Your mileage may vary, of course. But the fact I disagree doesn't automatically mean I'm lecturing you.
I mean I can if you want me to though LOL. I like lecturing anonymous internet posters while procrastinating at work. That was just a little joke, don't get mad.
Shrug away! I felt it was very condescending to say "Kids often change majors, but the idea is to apply to college fully prepared to study whatever major you say you want to try FIRST." I raised two kids to adulthood, including college and grad school, though the latter was more their own. I am aware that one needs to be fully prepared to study one's choice of major. However, this may end up being "much ado about nothing". The student may move up into honors next year. And while I wouldn't say mom is doing anything "wrong" she's certainly getting all fired up here about summer school and the like to get this kid prepared for a major she may not even pursue. Regarding summer school, she'll have a better idea come next semester if that's an option to go for.
As far as honors classes, I thought a little more about what happened with one of my kids. Now, mind you this was close to 20 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. Come to think, I didn't post about it here; I don't think there even was a CD yet. It was a conversation I had with one of the math specialists in my district at a meeting. My daughter was in a "regular" class of some math, and her friend was in honors, which was weighted, and at semester they were both in the same place in the same book. The math specialist assured me that couldn't be, while it most certainly was.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-04-2019 at 02:55 PM..
Of course they DID (as do most who are intent to get full Jr Status while attending FT college (for FREE) instead of HS (as long as they had a transfer contract for a specified Degree program at receiving U)
I meant a university outside of the state of WA. Sorry for not being clear.
As it stands (outside of WA or any other state that has a RS program), AP classes (and two years worth of CC "101" classes with an Associates degree) don't always carry over to a 4 year & especially NOT if the AP credit is in one's major.
Obviously this Running Start type of a program isn't available in every state.
So you might consider adding that tiny little fact from here on out as opposed to telling concerned parents that "All they need to do is..." Because that option doesn't exist. Not in the state they live in or for the 4 year colleges their children will be applying to.
I meant a university outside of the state of WA. Sorry for not being clear.
As it stands (outside of WA or any other state that has a RS program), AP classes (and two years worth of CC "101" classes with an Associates degree) don't always carry over to a 4 year & especially NOT if the AP credit is in one's major.
Obviously this Running Start type of a program isn't available in every state.
So you might consider adding that tiny little fact from here on out as opposed to telling concerned parents that "All they need to do is..." Because that option doesn't exist. Not in the state they live in or for the 4 year colleges their children will be applying to.
Exactly! I also read on some "how to get into med school" message boards that many med schools won't accept AP biology as a pre-req, either. You have to have actually taken a college level course. Plus, when you take courses through programs such as "CU Succeed" (below), you get a grade on a transcript, so if you don't do well in the course, it affects your college GPA. Just some things to keep in mind.
Colorado has "CU Succeed" which sounds similar to Running Start. (CU is the acronym for the University of Colorado.) Just sayin'. https://clas.ucdenver.edu/cusucceed/
No, they are not discounted. Admissions staff puts more weight on honors and AP classes, even when the high school doesn't.
Honors courses are typically different from the regular courses. They cover more material in more depth. It is possible to jump from regular to honors on the math track but often the student will have to learn material in a hurry that everyone else learned last year to make up the difference. For instance, a regular algebra 2 class will cover algebra 2, but an honors algebra 2 will often get deep into trigonometry and pre-calculus concepts by the end of the spring semester.
That's true... but this mom(?) is not doing anything wrong by making sure the daughter is on track for what she says she wants NOW. Sophomore year is when you're supposed to start thinking about what you want to major in and start planning out your remaining classes accordingly. Of course kids may always change their mind later but you deal with that when/if it happens.
Kids often change majors, but the idea is to apply to college fully prepared to study whatever major you say you want to try FIRST.
This is very true. OP,if your daughter wants to, she can always self study and sit for the AP Calc BC exam when the time comes. It's up to her. She'll learn AB anyway (which is the equivalent of Calculus 1). BC is the equivalent of Calc 1 and 2. There's a lot of good options homeschoolers use if she wants to teach herself Calc 2.
I am mom
Yes to the highlighted, this is why she is looking at this. Actually, starting last year, in her freshman year, her counselors told her she needed to start planning her track in high school. They also told us in the parent meeting we needed to figure out which diploma our children were going to get and, if possible, if we knew what college they may attend (if any) how many foreign language classes they would take (some colleges require four years of a foreign langues, others three and I think some two).
By the end of the freshman year they started asking the kids if they knew what their career plans might be and what their majors might be so they could help them pick classes. My daughter was still undecided on things then, so they basically suggested all honors, one AP class, and the regular Algebra 2 (because honors Chemistry is supposed to be very hard and she already had the AP history class as well).
I just get the feeling some here think I am trying to force my daughter in to all this stuff. We are just following the lead of the school and a lot of this, including the original question of this thread, "should she be in honors Algebra is it really that important" came from my daughter. She is the one who wanted to the change because she was concerned that it might her her chances at college (because they are telling the kids they need to plan now). I was just asking questions. She is the one who is planning out her schedule with her counselor, I am just the one she comes to for advice and I try to help her.
And again, it's all really moot now. She was told there are no schedule changes allowed after the school year and that she should start planning her junior year now (they pick classes for the next year starting in January).
Being in these AP classes is my daughter's idea. She likes to be challenged. The darn public Ivy's, again, her idea. I told her if she can get aid for them, sure she can go. So now that's her goal, not mine. I'd be happiest for her to go to college closer to home and live at home (save on room and board). But this is her choice, so I let her aim for what she wants. Summer school is her idea too. She wants to take classes over the summer so she can have more room in her schedule for more math classes.
Now, I would be lying if I didn't say I want her to take as many AP classes as she can. She can get college credit for them/be in college less time. I am concerned about being able to afford college (which is why I like the idea of the local university). As I said, my ex husband is not going to help pay for any of this. My daughter considered ROTC, but she won't get in with her asthma. While I've saved for her, I am a single income parent in a high cost of living area. That gives me a double whammy. My salary looks "Great" compared to the state average, but because of where I live, it's actually below average. I joke that I am too rich for my daughter to get aid, but too poor to pay for college. The point is, we won't get need based aid and I am trying to avoid her being saddled down with debt after school. So careful planning is a must.
Anyway, at this point, the original topic is dead. She can't do anything. She just needs to plan the next year.
Yes to the highlighted, this is why she is looking at this. Actually, starting last year, in her freshman year, her counselors told her she needed to start planning her track in high school. They also told us in the parent meeting we needed to figure out which diploma our children were going to get and, if possible, if we knew what college they may attend (if any) how many foreign language classes they would take (some colleges require four years of a foreign langues, others three and I think some two).
By the end of the freshman year they started asking the kids if they knew what their career plans might be and what their majors might be so they could help them pick classes. My daughter was still undecided on things then, so they basically suggested all honors, one AP class, and the regular Algebra 2 (because honors Chemistry is supposed to be very hard and she already had the AP history class as well).
Wow. Talk about pressure on kids. Glad my D was not in your school district! Seriously, what are these folks thinking? Does no one have a background in adolescent development? Are admissions that competitive in your state?
My D went to a competitive HS in the Boston area, and I don't recall any of these pressures so early on.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Exactly! I also read on some "how to get into med school" message boards that many med schools won't accept AP biology as a pre-req, either.
Colorado has "CU Succeed" which sounds similar to Running Start. (CU is the acronym for the University of Colorado.) Just sayin'. https://clas.ucdenver.edu/cusucceed/
Exactly WRONG... Running Start is NOT a HS > College equivalency (as is AP & IB).
Running Start you are a college student(with a college transcript) You are not a HS student. You will not have or need a HS transcript (unless you desire one). You can get a HS diploma from the college if you think you want / need one.
The point is... If your kid is doing AP. why not forget HS and just take a real college course?
Most states allow that, Just enroll and pay tuition. (if you can qualify for college)
I have been in 12 states in the last 3 weeks interfacing with colleges and HS. It is not a foreign concept to skip HS and attend college. (or at least skip part of HS). Your 'high achieving' HS student is not getting benefit from additional HS courses, and they likely had enough HS credits to graduate at the end of Jr Yr.
Running Start is applicable in (3) states, but all you have to do is qualify for admissions and PAY tuition and go to college (early). Many RS students go international or out-of-state and still enter as full Jrs. They were NOT taking 'equivalency' college courses while in HS. They were attending college and they have transcripts (from college) to prove it / transfer.
As mentioned... Do your homework and get receiving U to accept courses from your 'attending' college BEFORE enrolling.
Why take AP when you can attend 'real' college instead? I dunno
One of our cousins is an international coordinator for AP and IB for last 15 yrs, so we had this discussion last week while in Colorado Springs.
Of course as mentioned up thread... do whatever suits your situation. We have over 20 colleges within an hour, so it was simple for our kids to choose. Not so for many who have restricted access. (many on-line options today that were not available to ours).
Choices should make direct college course access for today's student very broad.
I have been in 12 states in the last 3 weeks interfacing with colleges and HS. It is not a foreign concept to skip HS and attend college. (or at least skip part of HS). Your 'high achieving' HS student is not getting benefit from additional HS courses, and they likely had enough HS credits to graduate at the end of Jr Yr.
Why take AP when you can attend 'real' college instead? I dunno
It's interesting that one of the pioneers of gifted education, Julian Stanley (JHU - look his work up) originally thought, and pioneered, radical acceleration, much like Rabbit seems to be advocating. The kids seemed to do fine at the time, but when interviewed much later, were not so hot on the idea. So there's your answer. Look up the research if you don't believe me.
It seems that in the long run, it matters more to have a relatively normal HS experience, with all that entails, than to have a head start on college, at least to these kids. Their HS experience was split - they had two sets of friends and peers, their social ones, age appropriate, and their educational ones, older and more mature. And note that there's a huge difference between a 16 year old and a 18 or 19 year old.
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I dunno 
