[TiZZ]

That is a valid point JViello, but can you blame them for working for less? If a rash of lifelong Americans began to flood your industry working for $7 dollars an hour under the table, you would have the same problem.

I agree also with what silver203 said. It's not really the immigrant's fault that they work for low wages and such. They come from a different culture and are used to a different way of life.

I have seen some good points in this discussion from both sides. On one hand, illegal immigrants are still human beings and deserve rights. This is a free nation. But on the other hand, there is inadvertant damage done to the economy whether it be in the form of federal programs running at a deficit and a large labor pool willing to do the same work for less.

I believe at this point we should put everything else aside and instead of looking for problems we should focus on thinking of a compromise or a solution. We are all smart people. Maybe we'll think of something good.

[Niners fan]

To me the compromise is to enforce the border and fine/jail employers who hire illegals. I am pretty hard-core against illegal immigration but I don't think we should kick the kids out of schools, refuse medical care, or ask immigration status from crime victims. However, if we deny them all other services and make it tougher to live here and come here then they WILL begin to self-deport. It is already happening in the Southwest with the minimal effort that ICE has made in the last year.

If an American wants to do a job for less then more power to them. That is just the free market at work in the job market. But illegals have an advantage because they often work for cash (avoiding taxes for the themselves and the the employer - plus workers comp costs), the cost of living for their relatives in Latin America is so much lower, and because they often live in houses with so many other illegals (keeping their rent low per person).

I don't blame the immigrants for wanting to come here. Most of them I believe to be otherwise honest, hard-working people. But I do blame our policy makers for not upholding the law and protecting our country. I have often wondered, however, why countries like Mexico encourage so many of their more ambitious citizens to leave their country...

[JViello]

Originally Posted by TiZZ

That is a valid point JViello, but can you blame them for working for less? If a rash of lifelong Americans began to flood your industry working for $7 dollars an hour under the table, you would have the same problem.

I agree also with what silver203 said. It's not really the immigrant's fault that they work for low wages and such. They come from a different culture and are used to a different way of life.

We not in total disagreement for sure.

I would be okay with the free market making an industry what it is so long as fair trade practices are followed, because that means there will be a level playing field and I can still legally adjust the sails and compete. But having having an advantage in the market by what could be considered cheating and breaking the law is simply wrong and it's hurting those of us who follow the law.

As for the culture...again, I don't totally disagree but will point out that many of them are not here to assimilate but simply to drain what they can. A "get yours" mentality. When you live 10 to an apartment designed for a single family, and share one or two cars you can afford to work for those wages and not starve. The working, blue collar young man (Call him a carpenter or landscaper) with a wife and baby can not afford to live on those wages where they once were able to live a modest life in said industry. Those are the people who are getting hurt.

I too blame the business owners just as much. STIFF fines, and legal action against them is something I would vote for in a heartbeat. If we as business owners have to provide license or insurance documents on demand for a client, we should also be able to produce a document that says our workers are "licenesed" or whatever to work in the United States...be it by visa or citizenship. A good example would be Mitt Romney. (Not my "guy" but a good example) He had illegals mowing his lawn. Did HE hire them? No, and you can't make the customer responsible for policing the company he hired. If it's something like a proof of insurance document...it's a simple easy thing to ask for. Maybe even a yearly renewal thing where you have to submit your employees credentials and you get your "cert" showing your people are on the up and up. Right now your recourse as a consumer is only to be a coarse jerk and say "hey are your workers legal?" (Which I have done in the past and in fact got kicked out of a small restaurant in Meriden for it. lol)

I'm also in agreement with Niners Fan regarding the treatment of people.

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by TiZZ

It's not really the immigrant's fault that they work for low wages and such. They come from a different culture and are used to a different way of life.

I don't think that's a culture (disdain for the law) we want to import.

[Bob The Builder]

Cutting in line is just not fair or civilized. In some cultures it is perfectly acceptable. It is not and should not be acceptable in the US. If a person waits in line to get into the US, he/she is entitled to "import" his/her culture and we are all richer for it. That is legal immigration. That is what no one should have a problem with. Shouldn't we be protecting the rights of those who are legally waiting to get in?

[reason180]

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

I don't think that's a culture (disdain for the law) we want to import.

Following your twisted logic American citizens must have a “disdain for the law” since so many of them profit off of the cheap immigrant labor pool.

Once again you guys attempt to demonize a large group of people who for the most part are here working. If there wasn't an American Citizen willing to give them a job they wouldn't be here.

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by reason180

Following your twisted logic American citizens must have a “disdain for the law” since so many of them profit off of the cheap immigrant labor pool.

The original argument was the immigrants can't help themselves; it's in their culture to work under the table and pay no taxes.

I agree wholeheartedly that employers of illegals ought to be heavily penalized.

[TiZZ]

Americans encourage illegal immigration by offering employment and housing to illegal aliens. The blame is as much ours as it can be theirs.

Good discussion. I'm seeing that this is a very complex issue.

[BringHocky Back]

Who says that the western part of CT is better than all the others I live in the wood of northeastern Ct It is better than those rich snobs down in those parts: D: D: D: D

[beautymarked]

Originally Posted by reason180

Following your twisted logic American citizens must have a “disdain for the law” since so many of them profit off of the cheap immigrant labor pool.

Once again you guys attempt to demonize a large group of people who for the most part are here working. If there wasn't an American Citizen willing to give them a job they wouldn't be here.

I have to disagree with that- If there were laws put into place-and carried out-then they wouldn't be here.