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I doubt you will see any changes in office space at Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford and Middletown or Collins Aerospace in Windsor Lock because those are government facility requiring a high level of security. UTC had offices in Farmington that will likely be impacted though. Jay
So as sales come back they aren't hiring back. They already said they are cutting 20% from their commercial aviation jobs which is 16,500, in Ct it amounted to 450 layoffs.
"Costs also will be reduced with Pratt & Whitney’s new manufacturing plant in North Carolina. Calio said it’s expected to generate $180 million in annual savings.
“Today a part has to travel 2,500 miles with eight hand-offs. When this is ready to go, we’ll all produce this in one factory,” he said."
If it's eight handoffs does that mean closing or moving seven factories into an eighth?
keep in mind the F35 is expensive https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/why-...oondoggle.html
It's the most expensive weapons program ever and there are cyber security issues with it. Pratt only makes the engines for it, can't totally blame them but if the engine was only made for that fighter and it gets cancelled they'll be left with orders just sitting there.
Just because a place has high security doesn't mean they need all that space. If they are making a new plant in NC and they are talking about consolidating plants I would argue the development is going to the new plant. why would they open a new plant to consolidate out of it rather than in it? They didn't even look at CT for the new plant https://www.courant.com/business/hc-...2ea-story.html
The county in NC just approved 5 million to pay for a training facility. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...bs/5155894001/ Total incentives are 40 million over 15 years. the sad thing is a community college is going to be training the new employees. To be frank Asanuntuck can easily do the same in CT so this isn't about talent or training, it's about price. 450 jobs cut in CT and 800 jobs created in NC...
1) They are opening a new plant in NC
2) They are consolidating plants to lower costs
3) They are selling off assets in CT
4) They realize their projects could be on the chopping block
5) They plan on cutting office space by 25%.
I can't blame them for wanting to cut costs. This is starting to feel like GE in Pittsfield all over again. Follow the money. Where are they buying and investing and where are they liquidating.
So as sales come back they aren't hiring back. They already said they are cutting 20% from their commercial aviation jobs which is 16,500, in Ct it amounted to 450 layoffs.
"Costs also will be reduced with Pratt & Whitney’s new manufacturing plant in North Carolina. Calio said it’s expected to generate $180 million in annual savings.
“Today a part has to travel 2,500 miles with eight hand-offs. When this is ready to go, we’ll all produce this in one factory,” he said."
If it's eight handoffs does that mean closing or moving seven factories into an eighth?
keep in mind the F35 is expensive https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/why-...oondoggle.html
It's the most expensive weapons program ever and there are cyber security issues with it. Pratt only makes the engines for it, can't totally blame them but if the engine was only made for that fighter and it gets cancelled they'll be left with orders just sitting there.
Just because a place has high security doesn't mean they need all that space. If they are making a new plant in NC and they are talking about consolidating plants I would argue the development is going to the new plant. why would they open a new plant to consolidate out of it rather than in it? They didn't even look at CT for the new plant https://www.courant.com/business/hc-...2ea-story.html
The county in NC just approved 5 million to pay for a training facility. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/...bs/5155894001/ Total incentives are 40 million over 15 years. the sad thing is a community college is going to be training the new employees. To be frank Asanuntuck can easily do the same in CT so this isn't about talent or training, it's about price. 450 jobs cut in CT and 800 jobs created in NC...
1) They are opening a new plant in NC
2) They are consolidating plants to lower costs
3) They are selling off assets in CT
4) They realize their projects could be on the chopping block
5) They plan on cutting office space by 25%.
I can't blame them for wanting to cut costs. This is starting to feel like GE in Pittsfield all over again. Follow the money. Where are they buying and investing and where are they liquidating.
You have to realize something, politics play into these decisions a lot. Think about it, when they go before a Congressional Appropriations Committee they need as many Congressmen on their side as possible. They do that by adding jobs in other states. There was a time Pratt was adding jobs in Florida. That changed and they brought many of those jobs back to Connecticut. It’s all a game.
Raytheon had nothing to do with the sale of Rentschler Field. UTC made that decision decades ago when they stopped servicing planes in East Hartford. There is a long history of the sale and development of that property. UTC/Pratt agreed that rather then just sell off the property on the open market, they would work with the town to find a developer for the property. After they went through a lengthy proposal process, they chose Matos Group to be the sites developers. The reason it is back on the market is the previous plan to build a large outlet center there fell through and Matos has not formally proposed anything else though they had indicated they would. I’m not sure what the status of their agreement is today. To my knowledge Raytheon has not proposed to sell off any other Connecticut properties.
I’d also like to note that only 450 jobs out of the 18,000 they employ here is not a lot. These layoffs occurred months ago. A friend retired early as part of it back in October. It was virtually unnoticed in the economy in greater Hartford. Jay
You have to realize something, politics play into these decisions a lot. Think about it, when they go before a Congressional Appropriations Committee they need as many Congressmen on their side as possible. They do that by adding jobs in other states. There was a time Pratt was adding jobs in Florida. That changed and they brought many of those jobs back to Connecticut. It’s all a game.
Raytheon had nothing to do with the sale of Rentschler Field. UTC made that decision decades ago when they stopped servicing planes in East Hartford. There is a long history of the sale and development of that property. UTC/Pratt agreed that rather then just sell off the property on the open market, they would work with the town to find a developer for the property. After they went through a lengthy proposal process, they chose Matos Group to be the sites developers. The reason it is back on the market is the previous plan to build a large outlet center there fell through and Matos has not formally proposed anything else though they had indicated they would. I’m not sure what the status of their agreement is today. To my knowledge Raytheon has not proposed to sell off any other Connecticut properties.
I’d also like to note that only 450 jobs out of the 18,000 they employ here is not a lot. These layoffs occurred months ago. A friend retired early as part of it back in October. It was virtually unnoticed in the economy in greater Hartford. Jay
I'm fully aware of what log rolling is. It's obviously a big company with operations all around the country. I think you have to realize that the layoffs with the hiring add up. I know the deal fell though but given what happened with the old Uconn campus in west hartford it isn't surprising. Warehousing can be fine but it can't be a default for everything. Going to Amazon for jobs isn't something local governments should always do. How many distribution centers are really needed and are the wages really that high? Years ago I used to be for them but at this point there's so many that it just isn't really adding that much.
Right 450 jobs out of 18,000 isn't that high (2.5%) but you also have to consider some of the 1099'd employees that aren't counted on this. I know some personally. How many subcontractors are out there?
It's more than clear that they are not expanding in CT but they are in NC. I'm not saying it should be more like NC but the lower wages and tax incentives add up. GE at one point had about 14,000 jobs in Pittsfield, easily propping up the city and much of the region (at least the northern part). Layoffs started in the 70's although most know it from the ones in the 80's. They have a love hate relationship due to the pollution.
You have to see what exactly is keeping the jobs in the area. What laws and what legal agreements. I'm talking actual documented "I'll see you in court" type of documents. Anything of some old school "Well he owed my uncle a favor from 1997" doesn't matter at all, no one cares about politicians once they aren't in office.
We already pulled out of Iraq and we're pulling out of Afghanistan. The F22 and F35 can easily be on the chopping block. If we already have missiles and drones I think the argument for manned fighter aircraft is a bit redundant especially with the legacy costs and cyber security issue. the democrats have congress and the presidency they can cut this to free up funding for more domestic spending. Imagine if the CT NY Long Island tunnel was actually made. that's the scale that this could be if these are cancelled. Do we want to expand medicare or make jets? Do we want to fix school buildings or make missiles? You also have to figure what's CT going to do vote republican? If Biden and congress make cuts for layoffs here it's not like the state is going to turn red or at least overnight.
The F35 without question is the biggest single item project that the federal government can cut to make ends meet. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ch-ncna1259781
36K an hour to fly vs 22K for a F16, that's 38% more and for what?
I'm fully aware of what log rolling is. It's obviously a big company with operations all around the country. I think you have to realize that the layoffs with the hiring add up. I know the deal fell though but given what happened with the old Uconn campus in west hartford it isn't surprising. Warehousing can be fine but it can't be a default for everything. Going to Amazon for jobs isn't something local governments should always do. How many distribution centers are really needed and are the wages really that high? Years ago I used to be for them but at this point there's so many that it just isn't really adding that much.
Right 450 jobs out of 18,000 isn't that high (2.5%) but you also have to consider some of the 1099'd employees that aren't counted on this. I know some personally. How many subcontractors are out there?
It's more than clear that they are not expanding in CT but they are in NC. I'm not saying it should be more like NC but the lower wages and tax incentives add up. GE at one point had about 14,000 jobs in Pittsfield, easily propping up the city and much of the region (at least the northern part). Layoffs started in the 70's although most know it from the ones in the 80's. They have a love hate relationship due to the pollution.
You have to see what exactly is keeping the jobs in the area. What laws and what legal agreements. I'm talking actual documented "I'll see you in court" type of documents. Anything of some old school "Well he owed my uncle a favor from 1997" doesn't matter at all, no one cares about politicians once they aren't in office.
We already pulled out of Iraq and we're pulling out of Afghanistan. The F22 and F35 can easily be on the chopping block. If we already have missiles and drones I think the argument for manned fighter aircraft is a bit redundant especially with the legacy costs and cyber security issue. the democrats have congress and the presidency they can cut this to free up funding for more domestic spending. Imagine if the CT NY Long Island tunnel was actually made. that's the scale that this could be if these are cancelled. Do we want to expand medicare or make jets? Do we want to fix school buildings or make missiles? You also have to figure what's CT going to do vote republican? If Biden and congress make cuts for layoffs here it's not like the state is going to turn red or at least overnight.
The F35 without question is the biggest single item project that the federal government can cut to make ends meet. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ch-ncna1259781
36K an hour to fly vs 22K for a F16, that's 38% more and for what?
You seem to be forgetting that UTC just invested billions in our state including the $500 million Pratt & Whitney Headquarters and Engineering Center, a $150 million UTC Research Center and a new Customer Service Center at Collins Aerospace in Windsor Locks. Pratt & Whitney has added thousands of workers here over the past several years so the loss of 450 jobs is not a lot in comparison.
For more than 13 years I have been hearing on this forum that Connecticut’s economy is doomed and the end is near. It has not happened yet. Comparing the loss of 450 jobs out of 18,000 to GE’s pull out of Pittsfield is ludicrous. Raytheon has said NOTHING about leaving Connecticut. In fact, they committed to maintaining employees here. So stop the dramatics. It’s just wrong.
I’m also not aware of the loss of many subcontractor jobs either. If anything their subcontractors are having trouble finding employees. If you have proof of something otherwise, please post it. I have seen NOTHING to even suggest it. Jay
I don't really think you understand what happened with GE. It's not like one day they canned 18,000 people. I don't even know if it was that high I thought it was 14,000. Regardless it was gradual layoffs over decades but only became significantly noticeable by the 1980s'. In 1965 Pittsfield stopped growing. By the 1970's the Berkshire region stopped growing. Although Pittsfield developed the areas around it generally didn't, bad planning.
13 years ago Raytheon didn't own pratt and whitney. It's now based out of Mass, not CT. Aetna was bought out by CVS (CEO suggests layoffs next year), The Hartford was approached by Chubb and we know what happened with GE.
One of the major issues in gateway cities in mass is that they were dominated by one given industry. Pittsfields was GE, Springfield was the armory, Holyoke was paper, brockton was shoes, fall river and new bedford whale oil and then fishing, quincy was the shipyard etc. The state put investments in communities when these industries declined.
Since CT governs more as a confederacy of towns rather than a state the likelihood of state support is nil. You talk about investments and in NC they are only paying $5 million for a training center. It's one thing to be bribed but it's another for a cheap bribe. $5 million gets a training center which is cheap and that causes 800 jobs to be put there. They could have easily made the same in CT, they didn't even look in CT for expansion.
I grew up in a military community, I know what it can be like when a base closes. A friend of mine was working for a federal contractor in CT and was going to get sequestered (he was searching for MH370). So he quit and is no longer in CT.
East windsor cannot tax the property and it will stay undeveloped for ten years.
"The letter, dated April 1, is signed by Bowsza, Windsor Locks First Selectman J. Christopher Kervick, Ellington First Selectwoman Lori Spielman, East Hartford Mayor Marcia Leclerc, and South Windsor Mayor Andrew Paterna and Town Manager Michael Maniscalco.
LEADERS’ PLEA
Who: Officials from East Windsor, East Hartford, Ellington, South Windsor, and Windsor Locks.
What: Ask the state to make payments promised under the now-defunct deal for a casino in East Windsor — $3 million for East Windsor and $750,000 for the surrounding towns.
The loss of the casino will hurt the towns financially, they say in the letter.
Under the March 2017 deal to build the casino, East Windsor would have received up to $40 million over a five-year period, Bowsza says — a $3 million annual impact payment plus $5.5 million in taxes during the initial period, rising to $7 million.
“The direct economic loss to East Windsor is staggering, amounting to nearly 20% of municipal revenue annually,” he wrote."
If it takes you 13 years to not see corporate consolidation and reliance on government contracts is a sign of weakness then I don't know what to say. There is nothing that can convince you otherwise but I'm not here for you.
Health care is pretty secure anywhere so no one is talking about closing hospitals. Academia is pretty security and of course most local government jobs. But the top three are defense contractors, even more than insurance. There's at least 27,000 jobs directly tied to defense industry and *none* of them are incorporated in the state due to the mergers. Sikorsky Aircraft is owned by Lockheed Martin (Maryland), Pratt and Whitney is owned by Raytheon (Mass), Electric Boat is owned by General Dynamics (Virginia). Do you honestly think that those in congress in other states care about layoffs in CT given that people in CT can't vote in other states? Mass is obviously close but that's where GE went. RI is close too but that's where Aetna went. When Disney closed down Blue Sky Studios did anyone in California bat an eye?
I'm not sure if you ever worked for a large corporation. I have. We cared much more on where we were incorporated rather than outside of it. Layoffs at home were dozens, layoffs in other states were complete offices.
The focus should be on smaller employers but frankly even they had issues. Over 11,000 were laid off last year. A fair amount of these could be rehired with covid being mostly over but are they coming back or not. https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/progsu...s/warn2020.htm
As I mentioned earlier the F35 looks to be cut https://prospect.org/power/lockheed-...spending-cuts/
"Even some hawkish Democratic members of Congress with jurisdiction over the Pentagon budget have joined in advocating for reduced spending on the F-35, which in recent months has seen its official support within the Pentagon begin to wane. The powerful House Armed Services Committee Chair Adam Smith (D-Wash.) criticized the jet’s runaway costs, saying, “I want to stop throwing money down that particular rathole” and suggesting the Pentagon find a way to “cut our losses.” Two Democratic subcommittee chairs said last week that they’re wary of adding any more F-35s than the Pentagon requests to the FY2022 defense budget, which is still being developed as part of Biden’s federal budget proposal. The F-35 is one of a handful of projects mentioned in a Feb. 17 memo by Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks as being under Pentagon review for potential cuts in acquisitions."
Long term operating costs have skyrocketed to 2x what they thought they would be. You can't run fleets that way. Federal financial years start october 1st this is going to be a big debate over the summer.
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