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There is no precedent because we have no president - when it comes to foreign policy. He (BN) had to get our attention somehow. Obama has it all wrong on Iran...he is being manipulated by them. They are masterful at this.
From day one, Obama - who I was neutral on but felt he was unprepared for the job, made us look like a bunch of ignorant buffoons overseas. His foreign policy and leadership is the weakest I've seen in the last 40 years. He is viewed by Europeans as unsophisticated in protocol, and foreign relations. He clearly does not understand the psyche of Middle Easterners and thus their leadership. If he did, he would know that many middle easterners (especially Iranians) are raised to hate Israel and yearn for its death and annihilation of its citizens. You can be guaranteed that the deal they have negotiated has a secret, built in plan, to continue working towards nuclear arms so that they can wipe Israel off the map. And, if they are able, they'd love to take us out too. This was, and is, their goal.
Even the CIA and Mossad says you're wrong. And if you were ever "neutral" on Obama then you were blind from day one. He's been a lying weak-willed bastard paid off by the banks since forever. Iran does not want to destroy America. AIPAC has a hold on your mind.
And if Iran is so "masterful" at manipulation, why exactly have they been almost completely isolated by the West for 30+ years? Because they're just such masterful manipulators at manipulating Western politicians into kowtowing to their sinister plots, right? God... Even Krauthammer and Maddow combining all of their bad ideas couldn't get things THAT wrong...
Originally Posted by jbgusa I read rather than watched the speech (link to transcript). Simply put, it was a masterpiece.
It lays out for the Western world that we don't have to negotiate surrender on the installment plan. If Iran and other similar states or non-state actors are cut off from the civilized world, the lower price of oil will do the rest.
These are not countries that have developed their human potential. They have specialized primarily in finding ways to create and then butcher enemies. The entire history of radical Islam has been one of anger, fighting and reprisals. Exceptions such as Moorish Spain and Indonesia are only partial exceptions and are "border states." They were/are as to radical Islam as Virginia, during the years leading up to the Civil War was to South Carolina.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 03-05-2015 at 10:07 AM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
Part of this, for instance, is to permanently station IAEA inspectors at the most controversial nuclear sites; Arak, Tabriz, etc. This would be like owning a gun shop and having an ATF agent stationed there.
That is a fatuous comparison. The IAEA inspectors have no power to shut anything down or stop any operation. I suspect ATF agents do. I also suspect the Iranian government or their thugs could stop an IAEA inspection going awry from their point of view. Nixon tried stopping a U.S. agency investigation. That didn't end well for Nixon. All that the IAEA can do is report an infraction. It will again be, presumably, politically difficult to do much about it. So that would bring us back to where we are now, or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
I hate Obama probably more than any of the Bibi lovers on here who assume (for whatever reason) that he's not lying, but, really, this is a solid deal.
It really isn't. Iran gets the immediate benefit of sanctions being lifted, and international approval for being a nuclear threshold state. The alternative is to obliterate them.
That is a fatuous comparison. The IAEA inspectors have no power to shut anything down or stop any operation. I suspect ATF agents do. I also suspect the Iranian government or their thugs could stop an IAEA inspection going awry from their point of view. Nixon tried stopping a U.S. agency investigation. That didn't end well for Nixon. All that the IAEA can do is report an infraction. It will again be, presumably, politically difficult to do much about it. So that would bring us back to where we are now, or worse.
It really isn't. Iran gets the immediate benefit of sanctions being lifted, and international approval for being a nuclear threshold state. The alternative is to obliterate them.
Yeah, kick out an IAEA inspector and get regime-changed.
We even negotiated with the Chinese and Soviets when they controlled about 1/4 of the earth under an iron curtain. The Iranians couldn't regime change Albania if they wanted, why all the hyperbole?
What's more likely, Netanyahu, a POLITICIAN, is a filthy rotten liar with an agenda, or the CIA, Mossad, and IAEA are wrong in their intelligence assessments?
There is no precedent because we have no president - when it comes to foreign policy.
I love that expression. I'll have to remember it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass
He (BN) had to get our attention somehow. Obama has it all wrong on Iran...he is being manipulated by them. They are masterful at this.
The diplomatic corps and chattering classes always hanker for a "deal" at any cost. For them the deal is the end, not the means to an end, which is world peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass
From day one, Obama - who I was neutral on but felt he was unprepared for the job, made us look like a bunch of ignorant buffoons overseas. His foreign policy and leadership is the weakest I've seen in the last 40 years. He is viewed by Europeans as unsophisticated in protocol, and foreign relations. He clearly does not understand the psyche of Middle Easterners and thus their leadership. If he did, he would know that many middle easterners (especially Iranians) are raised to hate Israel and yearn for its death and annihilation of its citizens.
I'm old enough to remember Carter's presidency. Same old same old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass
You can be guaranteed that the deal they have negotiated has a secret, built in plan, to continue working towards nuclear arms so that they can wipe Israel off the map. And, if they are able, they'd love to take us out too. This was, and is, their goal.
A secret plan isn't even needed. People like to forget that Saddam Hussein made the U.N. inspectors a laughing stock. It's not secret. Iran throws off the sanctions and then goes on its merry way. What's their worst fear then? A very stern-sounding Presidential lecture or criticism in the New York Times?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass
I am not stating any of this from a partisan perspective. I think both major parties have some fence mending and revamping to do to get rid of the dead wood and update their platform. They need to earn the respect of the American ppl that has been lost these past many years. America is tired of lying, corrupt politicians who do not care for their constituents.
I am going to go "out of the box" and maybe a bit off-topic here. We need to measurably hike Congressional and Senate salaries so that bright people would be willing to leave businesses and compete for office. The people we have in Congress, with a few exceptions such as Cruz and Ryan, are simply not very bright people. I am sure there are some bright liberals. Can someone similarly identify them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighLass
As for Netanyahu, one has to respect that he is fighting for his ppl and the survival of his country. Many here cannot comprehend this as we don't face the daily challenges he/Israel has by being surrounded by countries who desire their annihilation and raise their children to desire the same. Can you imagine if Canada and Mexico were sworn enemies, and rained down rockets on us regularly, and we had to have conscription and be prepared to send each of our children to the army for 3 years when they turned 18? We'd have some whining citizenry. How would we feel if our buses and shopping malls were regularly bombed? I just think it's hard for many here to put themselves in the Israelis shoes having grown up in a country that hasn't had to fear this folks just don't have a frame of reference. Anyhow, Israelis take this in stride and know they must be prepared for war at any moment. They don't go looking for war, they simply want to live in peace.
Israel problems won't go away, but they can be managed with our help. I respect that BN was willing to take this risk of coming to speak to the American ppl.
Part of what Netanyahu is facing is that Israel is a first world, technologically advanced society. It's easier to administer a country like Gaza that's always being reduced to rubble than a modern country.
Even the CIA and Mossad says you're wrong. And if you were ever "neutral" on Obama then you were blind from day one. He's been a lying weak-willed bastard paid off by the banks since forever. Iran does not want to destroy America. AIPAC has a hold on your mind.
And if Iran is so "masterful" at manipulation, why exactly have they been almost completely isolated by the West for 30+ years? Because they're just such masterful manipulators at manipulating Western politicians into kowtowing to their sinister plots, right? God... Even Krauthammer and Maddow combining all of their bad ideas couldn't get things THAT wrong...
Neutral on Obama in that I felt none of the contenders was worth voting for. Neutral as in Meh, we are stuck with non starters, let's hope we have no major foreign issues during his term. This was my biggest fear. it was clear IMO he was being elected based on his color either by guilt, gullibility, likeability, or pride from the AA community who until him, had not had the opportunity to have someone of their race represent them as POTUS. While I thought he was likable, this is not a reason to elect someone. I knew he had no experience and because of this he rather scared me. That's what I meant but didn't want to elaborate and get off point/topic.
Nobody has a hold on my mind. I am very familiar with the Middle East and their psyche - especially Iranians, having some family members from there (Tehran) The place is now a rat hole. it was once, pre-revolution, very Americanized, wealthy, and sophisticated in the major cities - similar to Iraq. The small towns and villages were and still are, full of poor, illiterate workers. My family members had amazing homes, servants, maids for the kids, drove new Mercedes, wore Rolexes, paid thousands for art work on their indoor pool wall. Had a chain of business across the country, and then lost it all when America turned its back on the Shah. What I found very strange that with all their wealth and Westernization, and with their kids educated at European and American universities, they were very Americanized yet still, they hated anything Jewish and the nation of Israel. The hatred would boil out of them. It was like watching Jekyl and Hyde. Iran has been manipulating its neighbors, oppressing its people. They fear that if they don't get more resources, raise the standard of living, they will have another revolution only this time they'll kick out the Mullahs and the moderates who want to take over will in fact have been manipulated by ISIS. They need as many friends as possible right now. Trust me, they have hated our guts for more than 30 yrs, the factions in charge now that is. They wouldn't waste their time talking with us unless it would ONLY benefit them. They don't care about any country, any person other than themselves and or preserving their status quo.
Last edited by RaleighLass; 03-03-2015 at 09:11 PM..
Reason: typo
Yeah, kick out an IAEA inspector and get regime-changed.
We tried that when Saddam Hussein harassed U.N. inspectors. Did you support the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003?
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
We even negotiated with the Chinese and Soviets when they controlled about 1/4 of the earth under an iron curtain.
And the U.S. got what from SALT I or whatever Tricky Dick did in Beijing, then Peking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
The Iranians couldn't regime change Albania if they wanted, why all the hyperbole?
They will be able to blow Albania to smithereens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
What's more likely, Netanyahu, a POLITICIAN, is a filthy rotten liar with an agenda, or the CIA, Mossad, and IAEA are wrong in their intelligence assessments?
Those assessments may be fine for now but what happens when events have outraced them? Will it be politically or militarily possible to do battle with a nuclear Iran once they've presented us with a fait accompi?
Like Republicans, Netanyahu, is the problem. Idiotic speech in front of the Republican-downgraded Congress supports regression and ill-advised policy. His perspective, like that of the hapless right-wing party who invited him to make this inappropriate speech, is light years behind President Obama's view.
The entire free world is negatively impacted by Netanyahu and the GOP, neither able or willing to compromise for the greater good.
Are you thinking Obama knows what the greater good is? Such thinking makes me sick to my stomach. The harm that man has done to this country is beyond calculating.
Are you thinking Obama knows what the greater good is? Such thinking makes me sick to my stomach. The harm that man has done to this country is beyond calculating.
I couldn't agree more. His objective, similar to Carter's, is to place the U.S. on a level field with everyone else. His job is to be the U.S. President and advocate, not citizen of the world.
It is not his job to adhere to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort. That is exactly what he does.
I'm not defending Iran, but N.'s comments are inflammatory and intended to incite responses from the Muslim world, so he can turn around and proclaim that he was right after all. He wants Iran to attack Israel, but if that won't work, he's still happy to see ISIS doing his dirty work for him.
So now that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made his speech, what do you think about what he stated in relation to Iran?
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The place is now a rat hole. it was once, pre-revolution, very Americanized, wealthy, and sophisticated in the major cities - similar to Iraq. The small towns and villages were and still are, full of poor, illiterate workers. My family members had amazing homes, servants, maids for the kids, drove new Mercedes, wore Rolexes, paid thousands for art work on their indoor pool wall. Had a chain of business across the country, and then lost it all when America turned its back on the Shah. What I found very strange that with all their wealth and Westernization, and with their kids educated at European and American universities, they were very Americanized yet still, they hated anything Jewish and the nation of Israel. The hatred would boil out of them. It was like watching Jekyl and Hyde. Iran has been manipulating its neighbors, oppressing its people. They fear that if they don't get more resources, raise the standard of living, they will have another revolution only this time they'll kick out the Mullahs and the moderates who want to take over will in fact have been manipulated by ISIS. They need as many friends as possible right now. Trust me, they have hated our guts for more than 30 yrs, the factions in charge now that is. They wouldn't waste their time talking with us unless it would ONLY benefit them. They don't care about any country, any person other than themselves and or preserving their status quo.
