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I think they should have their penises cut off and she should be sewed up.. Both sides are stupid in that they are either raping her (which is about POWER and NOT SEX) or they are doing her without her consent which si just as bad... And her for hanging out with a bunch of drunk idiots and acting that way herself to get into this situation...
I think the point of the response was that until all of the facts are available there is still the possibility that this was not actually a rape. It is possible that it started consensually and she never protested or said no before she became incapacitated.
I think at the point of incapacitation it should have become evident that she was no longer voluntarily participating, but perhaps she was still providing positive signals involuntarily.
Until there is full disclosure of the circumstances it is premature to rally the lynch mob.
That said, based on the little I have read it seems unlikely that this was not a rape, pure and simple. Her incapacitation was sign one that she was no longer capable of consent. Lack of consent by definition should be viewed as rape, even without active objection.
I can understand the bystanders not recognizing the activity. She was incapacitated and not struggling or providing any obvious signs of objection, so anyone casually looking in might think it was just a drunken consensual act. Anyone subsequently passing by would see the activity and the lack of concern by the people already there and assume consensual activity as well. Without some sign of foul play most would not recognize anything being out of place given the "party" atmosphere of spring break and it's associated drink, drug and sexplay.
While it is not her fault that three "POS" guys abused her, it is her fault for putting herself in the situation where they could. A person with common sense would realize that this is not an atmosphere that fosters safety and clean fun. It is a atmosphere that promotes negative situations and dangerous activities. She has some culpability for willingly putting herself there, unless she was kidnapped and brought to the scene from a church social or other similarly supervised setting.
The attacker bear the greatest proportion of blame, but it is not a "Rape Culture" that permits this type of behavior. If a Rape Culture was indeed prevalent, the statistics would be more like 4 of 5 women are raped every year instead of 1 of 5. The concept of a rape culture indicates rape is socially acceptable and that is just nonsense. In the US we have a much higher incident of murder, but we certainly do not accept and trivialize the act of murder. If someone was being shot, or stabbed, or bludgeoned to death at the beach in front of hundreds of partiers there would be chaos, not blithe acceptance. This crime was greeted with acceptance because it was not recognized for what it was at the time.
You questioned why people would video it? Because they thought they were watching public sex, NOT public rape. The police got the video once it was made public, not directly from the videographers.
I do not condemn the poor girl for being raped, and I do not mean to at all suggest that she was the cause of the rape. That blame falls squarely on the rapist. Her share of blame is only allowing herself to be where she should not have been and giving them the opportunity. Someone takes a shortcut through a dark alley at night and gets mugged; not their fault for getting mugged, but definitely poor judgement for diverting through a dark alley at night.
It's poor judgement for anyone to drink or go to spring break style parties.
However, no one would say the males were to blame if they were raped at a party..(yes, men are raped and even gang raped) No one would say, "oh he shouldn't have worn short shorts and no shirt. He should have drank less or watched his drink"
They would say, "that's the worst thing I have heard! That poor guy". They would counsel others to proceed with caution, but without the blame.
See the difference?
By blaming the victim it makes it seem less awful to others. Like those rapists are really ok guys, except they just happened on a girl who brought it on herself by her choices.
The real truth is rapists don't wear signs and they don't need an excuse to rape. They do need an opportunity, so people should be careful. However, it is not the girls fault she was gang raped at a public party with hundreds of people.
You know, its funny, its this crazy thing with consent- YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT WHEN YOU ARE CONSCIOUS. She was NOT conscious.
Also? I know lots of crazy, and I mean crazy broads, who would do ALOT of stuff. And I have never, ever met in my life a woman who would say, "YEAH, roofie me so I don't know what's happening and lets get it on gang-style ON THE BEACH IN FRONT OF HUNDREDS". Maybe being conscious, she might have done it at a party, but I seriously, seriously doubt consent was at all involved here.
And as a woman, its a nice freaking change for there to be angry mobs at this stuff. Not too long ago it was still "but she asked for it, she's wearing a red dress". If we err on the side of caution at least we are finally paying attention. Yeah, it will sometimes be abused, but sometimes people confess falsely to murders and so far no one has decided to get rid of the admittance of confession in a court of law. I would rather a few false accusations than the "hush-up" culture we lived with from pretty much every moment til a decade or two ago.
You do realize that those "few false allegations" can destroy a man's life forever right? Or is this a gender-war stance?
Truth is, things like this go on at campuses all over the country. Students see sex out in the open often enough that they aren't even phased by it. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the witnesses to this alleged assault likely thought it was consensual. Just another drunk sorority girl getting her thing on. You see, most people think of rape as something violent and feel it's something that would be obvious if witnessed. If this girl was slipped a drug and raped then they should hang the rapists from the highest tree. But if it turns out she got a little too wasted, willingly engaged in sex, and then woke up with regret once she realized everyone saw it and it is now a matter of record, there is a possibility that out of shame or trying to salvage her reputation that she reports it as a rape. This actually happens quite frequently, and the false allegations aren't always reported either.
No one here has seen the full, uncensored video clip, so no one is in a position to make a definitive statement. Of course that doesn't stop some folks from getting emotionally charged up and choosing sides before all the facts are known. Doesn't stop them from lashing out with insults and hateful comments because they want to be right and they need to be right.
You do realize that those "few false allegations" can destroy a man's life forever right? Or is this a gender-war stance?
Truth is, things like this go on at campuses all over the country. Students see sex out in the open often enough that they aren't even phased by it. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the witnesses to this alleged assault likely thought it was consensual. Just another drunk sorority girl getting her thing on. You see, most people think of rape as something violent and feel it's something that would be obvious if witnessed. If this girl was slipped a drug and raped then they should hang the rapists from the highest tree. But if it turns out she got a little too wasted, willingly engaged in sex, and then woke up with regret once she realized everyone saw it and it is now a matter of record, there is a possibility that out of shame or trying to salvage her reputation that she reports it as a rape. This actually happens quite frequently, and the false allegations aren't always reported either.
No one here has seen the full, uncensored video clip, so no one is in a position to make a definitive statement. Of course that doesn't stop some folks from getting emotionally charged up and choosing sides before all the facts are known. Doesn't stop them from lashing out with insults and hateful comments because they want to be right and they need to be right.
It's poor judgement for anyone to drink or go to spring break style parties.
However, no one would say the males were to blame if they were raped at a party..(yes, men are raped and even gang raped) No one would say, "oh he shouldn't have worn short shorts and no shirt. He should have drank less or watched his drink"
They would say, "that's the worst thing I have heard! That poor guy". They would counsel others to proceed with caution, but without the blame.
See the difference?
By blaming the victim it makes it seem less awful to others. Like those rapists are really ok guys, except they just happened on a girl who brought it on herself by her choices.
The real truth is rapists don't wear signs and they don't need an excuse to rape. They do need an opportunity, so people should be careful. However, it is not the girls fault she was gang raped at a public party with hundreds of people.
Watch the video. It's obscene
People like to blame the victim so they can feel it could never happen to them, or their loved one because they would be much smarter, and make better decisions than the rape victim. It's a false sense of security, anyone can be raped. Rapists are known for choosing meek appearing women, the fully covered woman walking with her head down is a much easier, and more attractive target than a confident woman strutting down the street in a short skirt attracting lots of attention (she'll simply get more cat calls).
There is the perpetual myth that rape is almost to be expected, that it's just normal sexual desire gone out of control. This idea is most insulting to men, as though men are just a bunch of beasts who can go crazy at the sight of a short skirt, and just have to have sex even if it involves violence. Men who rape do it because they enjoy the control, and violence of rape, not because they were just so horny they had to have sex at that moment.
Most men have no trouble stopping themselves no matter how attractive, and sexy the woman is, or even how far the encounter might have gone. For most men their partner being willing is essential to them enjoying the experience.
That isn't surprising because it is consistent with what I have read on social psychology. There is a famous case from NYC with similar circumstances. The more witnesses, the less likely somebody will step in to help. It is a massive groupthink of duh...they wait for somebody to save the day, but nobody will.
Incensed? You're taking it too personally. Take out gender for a second. The lack of responsibility is no different than if you drove a convertible car with the top down through a bad area and got carjacked. Irresponsibly bad decision making. What would people (of both genders) automatically say? "WTF were they doing there exposing themselves like that?" Seen it time and again on message boards. Of course the thief is wrong and shouldn't have done that either. They are worthless criminals that can't control themselves.
There are plenty of (probably most) cases where women do absolutely nothing wrong and are still victims. There is no additional blame to be placed there. It varies by case and I never mentioned this one in particular, but that's not the issue people are having problems with. They claim it should never be the victims fault regardless. Sometimes I think women here are so defensive that they can't even be objective themselves. Maybe all they want to see is everyone on the board saying the same thing - the suspects are dirt. WE KNOW.
Take gender out of the equation and you don't have a conversation, smart guy. There isn't exactly an epidemic (at least, outside of prison) of men raping other men. Rape is a woman's issue, largely; and no, this does not include children, that is PEDOPHILIA. So, please wake up from your total lack of consciousness on this issue. Unfortunately, I am not a freaking convertible. Try as I might, I cannot get rid of my rack. I can't put my junk-in-the-trunk in a TRUNK. I can't hide my being a woman apologetically as I walk home at night from college. In your estimation, I shouldn't be going to school at all, because I have to walk home late through Los Angeles. Which is perfectly safe most of the time, but if something happened to me, in your estimation, it would be my fault. I am sure that if I were homeless, that would be my fault too, for not getting an education. O, logic.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT A WOMAN DOES OR DOES NOT DO. NORMAL MEN do not rape women even if she is dry humping him. Normal men do not get so hot-to-trot that they drive around looking for someone to throw one into, or rape a girl on a beach. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Rapists often become murderers. It is NEVER acceptable behavior, under any circumstance, and you need to educate yourself. If you refuse, I would suggest you keep your mouth shut because under the right circumstances, women can get REAL FED UP and start beating you with their purses, since men apparently are one-step-away from being rape machines, driven there by women.
You do realize that those "few false allegations" can destroy a man's life forever right? Or is this a gender-war stance?
Truth is, things like this go on at campuses all over the country. Students see sex out in the open often enough that they aren't even phased by it. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the witnesses to this alleged assault likely thought it was consensual. Just another drunk sorority girl getting her thing on. You see, most people think of rape as something violent and feel it's something that would be obvious if witnessed. If this girl was slipped a drug and raped then they should hang the rapists from the highest tree. But if it turns out she got a little too wasted, willingly engaged in sex, and then woke up with regret once she realized everyone saw it and it is now a matter of record, there is a possibility that out of shame or trying to salvage her reputation that she reports it as a rape. This actually happens quite frequently, and the false allegations aren't always reported either.
No one here has seen the full, uncensored video clip, so no one is in a position to make a definitive statement. Of course that doesn't stop some folks from getting emotionally charged up and choosing sides before all the facts are known. Doesn't stop them from lashing out with insults and hateful comments because they want to be right and they need to be right.
We are not talking about false allegations. I swear. THERE IS A VIDEO. Pick your battles. Maybe this isn't the place to go all Iron John on us. Can I underline again that defending, even in a glancing, offhand way, RAPE, is insulting to MEN too? Most men I know simply couldn't do the business of their woman wasn't enjoying it, even if they weren't in love with her. I mean, come on.
I HAVE NEVER heard of open orgies on the Quad. I almost feel like you are mistaking your porno collection for actual reality. You know all those coed porn sites are, uh, faked? And you know this woman in particular is UNCONSCIOUS?
I get playing devil's advocate, but you don't dig a hole for yourself in the process.
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