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Cancer is a dangerous disease. And not to add a frighting disease, brings lots of pain and suffering to families, costs society/our health care system a staggering amount of money, etc.
A large % of people will get cancer in their lifetime.
"Only 5-10% of all cancer cases can be attributed to genetic defects, whereas the remaining 90-95% have their roots in the environment and lifestyle. The lifestyle factors include cigarette smoking, diet (fried foods, red meat), alcohol, sun exposure, environmental pollutants, infections, stress, obesity, and physical inactivity. The evidence indicates that of all cancer-related deaths, almost 25-30% are due to tobacco, as many as 30-35% are linked to diet, about 15-20% are due to infections, and the remaining percentage are due to other factors like radiation, stress, physical activity, environmental pollutants etc. Therefore, cancer prevention requires smoking cessation, increased ingestion of fruits and vegetables, moderate use of alcohol, caloric restriction, exercise, avoidance of direct exposure to sunlight, minimal meat consumption, use of whole grains, use of vaccinations, and regular check-ups. In this review, we present evidence that inflammation is the link between the agents/factors that cause cancer and the agents that prevent it. In addition, we provide evidence that cancer is a preventable disease that requires major lifestyle changes."
Hey, and it even says "use of vaccinations", so we know that will light up the eyes of some so I have some hope to get this point across and an answer perhaps on the big picture of gov's role in telling people what to do.
Given these eye opening guidelines, it seems adults should not smoke and eat a largely plant based diet(vegan) as the data shows those 2 lifestyles changes will cut cancer related deaths by 55%-65% alone. That's truly stunning if you think about it.
Using your logic, applying it to this data: All people(including kids, because the seeds of cancer start decades before it's clinically diagnosed), should eat a plant based/vegan diet and not smoke. Do you agree? Would you take it to the next level..... the gov will tell you this is what you/kids/everyone will do by a gov mandate? After all, given how these 2 lifestyles alone create so much pain and suffering for families and individuals alike that this scientific study concludes, I would think you'd be for this mandate because not doing so, in your own words for vaccines, "It is the height of recklessness to allow dangerous diseases that we've essentially eradicated -- polio, measles, whooping cough, etc. -- to regain a foothold." Just replace "polio, measles, whooping cough, etc" with "cancer" and there you go....your statement sure sounds just as valid to me with "cancer" added to it. 55%-65% of cancer eradicated ...so yes to the gov mandate to eat only healthy foods and no smoking to make this happen? All foods not considered healthy and tobacco products, ban them?
I would be happy with banning tobacco products, because smokers affect not only themselves but those exposed to their secondhand smoke. However, bans are not the only approach to that problem. Making tobacco more expensive seems to be helping. However, other lifestyle decisions affect only the individual. Banning unhealthy foods is not desirable. Education about healthy diet and exercise is the best approach. The restaurant industry could help by offering smaller portions and healthier options. My child overeating still will not affect your normal weight child. Your hypothetical scenario just does not work.
Vaccine mandates protect herd immunity. There is nothing similar to herd immunity for conditions related to lifestyle.
Actually the MMR vaccine costs about $20/dose for publicly funded vaccine and about $60/dose for privately purchased vaccine. So the cartoon was a bit of hyperbole, like all cartoons, especially those cartoons the anti-vaxers put out with sobbing kids being stuck with 24 needles at once. I believe I've posted some links to some of those previously in this thread.
Still, if you read the first article, you will see that even investigating an outbreak is expensive. And I can assure you that you can't darken the door of a doctor's office for the price of a privately-purchased dose of vaccine. 25% of the Disney cases were hospitalized. Can you imagine what that cost?
This is a very interesting comment to me made by a pharmaceutical research chemist regarding chicken pox and shingles:
"When you catch chicken pox, some of the viruses integrate into your own cells instead of producing more viruses. As you get older, your immunity wanes and those latent viruses can come out and cause the disease known as shingles. You still have a strong enough immune response that it is more difficult to pass on the virus, as you noted. But you can still pass it on.
The "shingles" vaccine is essentially a chicken pox booster. The boosted immune response means you kill enough of these viruses to prevent shingles symptoms."
So basically what he is say is that by vaccinating for chicken pox it has created shingles because people who had chicken pox, are not getting their "boosters" from constantly being exposed to the virus in their children, grandchildren. Hello? Maybe my older relatives weren't just super humans or LUCKY to have not gotten Shingles? No Chicken Pox vaccine was around when they were alive. They got their Shingles "vaccine" from Chicken Pox all around them.
So the bottom line is that one VACCINE has created the need for ANOTHER vaccine. Very much like another script to counteract the script for another. More, and more, and more.
Reading from this, can the same be true for Measles too? Waning immunity over decades, not being exposed to it all around, that not create a natural "measles booster" do the same? I foresee that in the very near future for MORE vaccinations.
Actually the MMR vaccine costs about $20/dose for publicly funded vaccine and about $60/dose for privately purchased vaccine. So the cartoon was a bit of hyperbole, like all cartoons, especially those cartoons the anti-vaxers put out with sobbing kids being stuck with 24 needles at once. I believe I've posted some links to some of those previously in this thread.
Still, if you read the first article, you will see that even investigating an outbreak is expensive. And I can assure you that you can't darken the door of a doctor's office for the price of a privately-purchased dose of vaccine. 25% of the Disney cases were hospitalized. Can you imagine what that cost?
I think it would make a very nice presentation piece for a thesis; it just seemed odd in and of itself.
You are right, even though I personally find 6 vaccines at once to be of concern, its still only 1 injection. Fair is fair.
This is a very interesting comment to me made by a pharmaceutical research chemist regarding chicken pox and shingles:
"When you catch chicken pox, some of the viruses integrate into your own cells instead of producing more viruses. As you get older, your immunity wanes and those latent viruses can come out and cause the disease known as shingles. You still have a strong enough immune response that it is more difficult to pass on the virus, as you noted. But you can still pass it on.
The "shingles" vaccine is essentially a chicken pox booster. The boosted immune response means you kill enough of these viruses to prevent shingles symptoms."
So basically what he is say is that by vaccinating for chicken pox it has created shingles because people who had chicken pox, are not getting their "boosters" from constantly being exposed to the virus in their children, grandchildren. Hello? Maybe my older relatives weren't just super humans or LUCKY to have not gotten Shingles? No Chicken Pox vaccine was around when they were alive. They got their Shingles "vaccine" from Chicken Pox all around them.
So the bottom line is that one VACCINE has created the need for ANOTHER vaccine. Very much like another script to counteract the script for another. More, and more, and more.
Reading from this, can the same be true for Measles too? Waning immunity over decades, not being exposed to it all around, that not create a natural "measles booster" do the same? I foresee that in the very near future for MORE vaccinations.
No, Jo, chickenpox vaccine did not "create" shingles. Shingles has been with us for a long time. History of Shingles Disease | eHow
"Shingles has existed since the Middle Ages."
Before any of the "medical professionals" come on to say "shingles increases with age", I say WHY? It is because the elderly are not being exposed over the generations and given natural boosters. My "super human great-grandma" who lived to be 94 in 1954. Why didn't she get shingles? In her 40s all of her children had chicken pox. In her 60 and 70s all her grandchildren had it. In her 80s and 90s her great-grandkids had it too. She was constantly being exposed to chicken pox under her own roof most of the time. Remember, back then multiple generations lived together. Older generations were constantly being exposed to diseases from younger generations. With vaccinations, and mobility, they aren't.
Personally, I would prefer being around the disease itself, than get some booster from a vaccine with a bunch of chemicals; not to mention some self righteous medical care professional.
Hopefully, bathing my own kids (25 years ago) with chicken pox will help. Hopefully, working in a school environment 7 years ago with a Measles outbreak will give a "booster". I far prefer that to a booster vaccination for my "natural" immunity, which some people don't even agree with.
Actually the MMR vaccine costs about $20/dose for publicly funded vaccine and about $60/dose for privately purchased vaccine. So the cartoon was a bit of hyperbole, like all cartoons, especially those cartoons the anti-vaxers put out with sobbing kids being stuck with 24 needles at once. I believe I've posted some links to some of those previously in this thread.
Still, if you read the first article, you will see that even investigating an outbreak is expensive. And I can assure you that you can't darken the door of a doctor's office for the price of a privately-purchased dose of vaccine. 25% of the Disney cases were hospitalized. Can you imagine what that cost?
If you have health insurance, they will hospitalize or treat, based purely on the fact that THEY will be paid.
It doesn't sound like she's making a ton of money. It sounds like she started her non-profit after her son had a very serious vaccine reaction and injury. I bet she'd trade her job to have her son's health back in a heartbeat. I doubt your BFF, Paul Offit would give up his job or his profits.
She is making money. Also, if she ever admits that vaccines do not cause autism, her credibility is in the toilet. An honest person would admit she was wrong and begin soliciting contributions for real autism research.
Dr. Offit no longer owns any interest in the rotavirus vaccine. He already gave up further profit on it.
"Offit writes 'Just for the record: I no longer financially benefit from the sales of RotaTeq. My financial interests in that vaccine have been sold out by either The Wistar Institute, The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, or me. I will, however, continue to stand up for the science of vaccines because unfounded fears about vaccines have hurt children. That is why I do what I do and why I have always done it. And I will continue to closely follow the distribution of rotavirus vaccines because these vaccines have the potential to save as many as 2,000 children a day, which is why I joined the research team at Children's Hospital.' "
"In fact, that Offit donates all proceeds of his new book to the Autism Science Foundation contradicts the portrait of greed that Blaxill attempts to set out. Offit's last book also saw all proceeds go to autism charities, something AoA doesn't acknowledge (other than to tweet scornfully that ASF doesn't help like TACA does).
From my point of view, whatever he earned from a product that saves 2000 children's lives per day was too little.
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I've never ever said that I'm pro-vaccine because I'm not. I have said that I'm not anti-vaccine. Huge difference. I'm pro-choice and I know that you are not. I haven't bothered to share many scientific studies in this thread since it's more about freedom to choose then it is about vaccines. Forgive me for not believing that you don't have an agenda.
My agenda is the same as Dr. Offit's. Vaccines save lives, and I am here to counter nonsense about vaccines whenever someone posts it.
You never post anything in defense of vaccines. To me, that makes you anti-vaccine. Your refusal to share the "science" that supports your opinions just demonstrates that you have no science to support your position.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
They can't answer the question because they don't want to face reality and recognize their own inherent contradictions and hypocrisy. I have brought up the topic of abortion in this regard. Personally I think that abortion is wrong but I am pro-choice because I don't believe that the government has any right to tell people that they cannot have an abortion. I am also pro-choice when it comes to vaccinations. They are both examples of the old saying, "keep your laws off of my body". I am willing to bet that many of the vaccine pushers are pro-choice when it comes to abortion, but not when it comes to vaccinations. They tell me it's not related or they tell me that there are no victims in abortion (hello ) but there are when people don't vaccinate. They either are unable or unwilling to face the fact that they are being hypocritical when they want to take away choice in regards to what people do with their bodies when it comes to vaccines and not in other regards. Your examples about nutrition and the government adding mandates to what we eat, drink, smoke, etc. are spot on. Great posts.
Someone has an abortion does not affect the health of other people in her community. There is no comparison.
No one is forced to vaccinate by mandates. They still have the choice not to do so.
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Originally Posted by dizzybint
Its forced medication on the masses.
No one is forced to vaccinate by mandates. They still have the choice not to do so.
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Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52
It only costs $2 to vaccinate ALL of SanDiego? Silly me, I would of thought the alcohol pads alone would eat the $2 up.
The graphic compares the cost of one dose of vaccine to the costs incurred by one case of disease. You may want to go back and take a closer look at it.
She is making money. Also, if she ever admits that vaccines do not cause autism, her credibility is in the toilet. An honest person would admit she was wrong and begin soliciting contributions for real autism research.
So you don't think she should make any money? ok. But again, she started this due to her son being injured by a vaccine. I'm sure she'd trade his health problems that he got from the vaccine injury for the career any day. I often think that people focus too much on autism and vaccines. That is not the only reason why people avoid vaccines.
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Dr. Offit no longer owns any interest in the rotavirus vaccine. He already gave up further profit on it.
Did he give up his initial profit? No. Why do you put down people who have made money from careers that unfolded due to vaccine injuries yet defend Offit making millions? Whatever. I actually don't care to hear the answer, I just find it hypocritical.
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My agenda is the same as Dr. Offit's. Vaccines save lives, and I am here to counter nonsense about vaccines whenever someone posts it.
Right.
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You never post anything in defense of vaccines. To me, that makes you anti-vaccine. Your refusal to share the "science" that supports your opinions just demonstrates that you have no science to support your position.
I have no reason to "defend" vaccines. If people want to get them they can and will. I'm not against people getting them. That makes me pro-choice, not anti-vaccine. Think about it. Enough with abusing the term science. It's like an epidemic or something. You favor "scientific studies that are often industry funded and that support your agenda. That's NOT that same thing as science.
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Someone has an abortion does not affect the health of other people in her community. There is no comparison.
Someone who has an abortion ends a life. It does have an impact on someone other then themselves. Duh.
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No one is forced to vaccinate by mandates. They still have the choice not to do so.
Semantics. It's coercion and is not really a choice. You know it but won't admit it. You think that anyone and everyone can homeschool. That's absurd.
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Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Banning unhealthy foods is not desirable. Education about healthy diet and exercise is the best approach.
Banning choice is not desirable. Education about healthy diet and exercise as well as education about vaccines is the best approach.
Last edited by MissTerri; 07-03-2015 at 02:38 PM..
He is correct to the extent that the government should not coerce things into people's bodies. Vaccinations should be between parents and doctors, not the government.
No, it's not just between parents and doctors. If you don't want to immunize yours kids, fine. But keep them away from other kids whose parents want to immunize their kids but can't because the kids are too young or have compromised immune systems. Mingling these kids with more numbers of non-vacced kids increases the risk of making them sick.
We don't live in an isolated society. What one person does effects another. If people want to skip the vaccine and isolate their kids, fine, let Carrey start a school for them where they can not potentially harm others.
The government is trying to prevent a measles or polio epidemic. I doubt that Jim Carrey has ever seen one. I am old enough to have lived through more than one of both of them. It isn't pretty.
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) but there are when people don't vaccinate. They either are unable or unwilling to face the fact that they are being hypocritical when they want to take away choice in regards to what people do with their bodies when it comes to vaccines and not in other regards. Your examples about nutrition and the government adding mandates to what we eat, drink, smoke, etc. are spot on. Great posts.