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And I wonder just how long the list is of "medical reasons" that allow those parents to opt out and rely on the "herd effect" because others (but not their children) are required to be vaccinated.
I guess some will just go to the doctor that will write one. Should be big business now. Some peds can get patients they didn't have before. Just as I predicted would happen. Let the war begin. http://www.pediatricalternatives.com...-children.html
It passed. I don't think it will have that much of an impact in part due to the reasons you mention above.
The only impact it will have is the increased injury and death reports from vaccines. But the same old outbreaks will continue. But, it's not about health, it's about our wonderful "for profit" healthcare system.
What's next? I can't wait for the new Ebola vaccine they will be adding to that list down the road.
California just made a huge mistake. I'll now just watch it unfold.
I have mixed feelings on this, the freedom of choice of parents vs risk of getting something potentially serious. I'm a jaded individual when medicine/politics/money are all in the mix together. I also believe some rulings like this can open a Pandora's box. Who decides when/what vaccines will be required in the future? Flu vaccines for everyone eventually or you can't go to school?
But more than anything beyond the vaccine thing, I see a potentially slippery slope in all of this. And I'm not picking on vaccines per se, just how far should decisions be made by gov vs parents go? Many hear say the risk is serious enough for kids who aren't vaccinated against certain things. For those I ask....would you be comfortable with the gov telling parents how much a kid should weigh/what to feed them because after all, we know being obese comes with a host of health problems, immunity issues, type II adult onset diabetes in kids as young as single digits these days as a result, etc.?
If we are truly concerned with kids health/large health epidemics of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer which is largely preventable if people follow certain lifestyle parameters,:
I ask this question to those who are pro mandatory vaccines via gov decree.....given the millions of preventable cases of cancer and heart attacks that lifesytle changes would prevent and all the pain/suffering/cost associated with it, and how many bad habits start in childhood and carry over to adulthood, I trust you would be for mandatory gov lifestyle changes, what parents can/can't feed their kids, maintaining a certain weight, etc, ruling over parental choice, to greatly reduce the odds of these serious health issues from occuring, just like said mandatory vaccines will do?
And the answer is NO, it's not different. If kids health is the paramount issue here, which is the bottom line issue in all of this for mandatory vaccines, we'd be doing more things via gov decree for parents who aren't make the right lifestyle/diet choices for their kids that can indeed cause a bunch of current/future serious health issues, correct?
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
The Honey was/is tried with the FREE vaccinations under the ACA, Medicare, Medicaid. They probably thought that making vaccinations free would increase the number of people getting them. That certainly has not worked with Free Flu Shots, which are being given out everywhere. A few years ago one supermarket chain even tried "Free Turkey with your Free Flu Shot". CVS "Get your Free Flu Shot and get 10% discount on your purchase". "Give someone you love the gift of a Flu Shot". Whole LOT of Honey, but not many (45% adults), taking the bait. Probably the next step is coercion starting with children (easier targets) in the California legislation.
Thank you - yes, I guess the free turkey is definately honey. Also 'the gift of love' is honey.
The non-honey is watching your Doctor become outraged that you dont feel you need the vaccine. It seems like an irrational responce to something most of us view as mundane, and have viewed as mundane for decades already.
I was recently in an Emergency Room, where the first thing anyone entering the ED was offered was a Flu Shot during the triage phase. I happen to have needed to stay in the triage area for a good period of time. It did surprise me that literally everyone turned it down saying, "No, I dont want it." Not that they already had it - but they didnt want it. It was refreshing to see the person offering it not become irrate at the patients, but they did scowl and turn a cold shoulder. It was as if their paycheck required a certain amount of vaccine to be given.
What is happening to turn the public off to the idea of preventing the flu? I would look at the notion that the conspiracy theorists are winning as being just as rediculous as the theories themselves.
Most of us can stay in bed a few days with orange juice, chicken soup and a bottle of aspirin and conquer the flu and/or flu-like-illness. Even those of us that are said to have compromised immune-systems from another condition. The change in reporting seems interesting too. Even a chronic cigarrette smoker displays flu-like symptoms. They cough a lot.
Although thousands are reported to be dying from the flu (the diagnosis is only truely ascertainable through a blood test), that is a very small percentage compared to the total population. Even if we limited that figure to the population of NYC alone, with a population of 8 million people (+/-), its still a very small percentage of the population.
Since most of us are hard-pressed to think of anyone we know or ever knew throughout our lives that has died from the flu, mandating a vaccine for it also can create suspicion, and bring about conspiracy theories.
Medical professionals and scientists can assume whatever posture they want for flu vaccination, but its not in either their or any patient's best interest to create an environment where people dont want to seek their help, or start viewing their advice skeptically.
At the onset of the first mandates, even medical professionals were asking, why should I have a vaccination, when Ive never had the flu?
They give free vaccinations at the hospital where I work. It is also interesting to see Doctors there getting their vaccination elsewhere. You would think they would get the free one readily available at their workplace, wouldnt you? But, maybe there is a certain amount of comfort to having the ability to research the vaccines available, and order your own. *shrugs*
[quote=ConeyGirl52;40237158]Thank you - yes, I guess the free turkey is definately honey. Also 'the gift of love' is honey.
The non-honey is watching your Doctor become outraged that you dont feel you need the vaccine. It seems like an irrational responce to something most of us view as mundane, and have viewed as mundane for decades already.
I was recently in an Emergency Room, where the first thing anyone entering the ED was offered was a Flu Shot during the triage phase. I happen to have needed to stay in the triage area for a good period of time. It did surprise me that literally everyone turned it down saying, "No, I dont want it." Not that they already had it - but they didnt want it. It was refreshing to see the person offering it not become irrate at the patients, but they did scowl and turn a cold shoulder. It was as if their paycheck required a certain amount of vaccine to be given.
What is happening to turn the public off to the idea of preventing the flu? I would look at the notion that the conspiracy theorists are winning as being just as rediculous as the theories themselves.
Most of us can stay in bed a few days with orange juice, chicken soup and a bottle of aspirin and conquer the flu and/or flu-like-illness. Even those of us that are said to have compromised immune-systems from another condition. The change in reporting seems interesting too. Even a chronic cigarrette smoker displays flu-like symptoms. They cough a lot.
Although thousands are reported to be dying from the flu (the diagnosis is only truely ascertainable through a blood test), that is a very small percentage compared to the total population. Even if we limited that figure to the population of NYC alone, with a population of 8 million people (+/-), its still a very small percentage of the population.
Since most of us are hard-pressed to think of anyone we know or ever knew throughout our lives that has died from the flu, mandating a vaccine for it also can create suspicion, and bring about conspiracy theories.
Medical professionals and scientists can assume whatever posture they want for flu vaccination, but its not in either their or any patient's best interest to create an environment where people dont want to seek their help, or start viewing their advice skeptically.
At the onset of the first mandates, even medical professionals were asking, why should I have a vaccination, when Ive never had the flu?
They give free vaccinations at the hospital where I work. It is also interesting to see Doctors there getting their vaccination elsewhere. You would think they would get the free one readily available at their workplace, wouldnt you? But, maybe there is a certain amount of comfort to having the ability to research the vaccines available, and order your own. *shrugs*[/QUO
Very true concerning the flu with adults. Unlike diseases like measles, mumps, etc., younger adults have never experienced these themselves, so the the media and medical professionals can use fear tactics and create their panic to increase vaccinations, pass laws, etc. They can't with something like the flu which adults have had multiple times themselves. No big deal. Stay home from work in bed for a few days. End of story. People generally don't fear the flu. Was their the panic over the 2009 Flu, which was declared a PANDEMIC. Majority of the public probably did not even know it was, let alone increase the vaccination rates.
I think there is a divide in the public. They may want forced vaccinations of children, but when it comes to themselves you will get a flat out NO. California's Childhood vaccination passed on the fast track, but where is the other California bill for forced vaccination of Day Care Staff? Sitting there. Same with the Vermont bill for forced vaccination of public school staff. Crickets. Legislators more wary of mandatory adult vaccinations. I will lose my JOB if I am not up-to-date on all the CDC recommendations? Well, maybe I will FIRE YOU.
Put up all the signs you want, wherever you want, for your Flu, Tdap, Singles, etc. shots. Every adult has the perfect right to just walk on bye, and ignore them. I go to the supermarket all the time Flu season. I have never seen any lines, or even ONE PERSON, getting their Flu shot. Oh, all those people shopping must have already gotten their shots from their "personal care providers" before. lol
It's not medical professionals turning people off vaccines, its complacency (because they work so most people have never seen many of the illnesses that are returning) as well as the proliferation of misinformation and fear mongering.
Health professionals want people to get vaccines because they work.
They also see the impact on the most medically vulnerable people when unvaccinated people spread illnesses that are preventable.
I am for whatever encourages (or requires) people to prevent the spread of serious illness to other children or medically vulnerable people. Parents who want to send their kids to public school now must vaccinate. If they want to homeschool they are welcome to do that. They just can't put someone else's kid at risk through the daily close contact that school provides.
[all this flu shot discussion is off topic as it has nothing to do with the legislation that has now passed in California]
I have mixed feelings on this, the freedom of choice of parents vs risk of getting something potentially serious. I'm a jaded individual when medicine/politics/money are all in the mix together. I also believe some rulings like this can open a Pandora's box. Who decides when/what vaccines will be required in the future? Flu vaccines for everyone eventually or you can't go to school?
The California statute is quite specific that the vaccines which are subject to the law are those childhood vaccines that are currently recommended by the CDC. In order to require additional vaccines, the law would have to be amended and go through the same process that the original statute did. That would include consideration by committees in both the Assembly and Senate, passage by a majority of both Houses, and than signature by the Governor. Adding flu vaccines or any other vaccine would require another trip through the legislative process. In other words, adding vaccines will not be easy, but possible.
But more than anything beyond the vaccine thing, I see a potentially slippery slope in all of this. And I'm not picking on vaccines per se, just how far should decisions be made by gov vs parents go? Many hear say the risk is serious enough for kids who aren't vaccinated against certain things. For those I ask....would you be comfortable with the gov telling parents how much a kid should weigh/what to feed them because after all, we know being obese comes with a host of health problems, immunity issues, type II adult onset diabetes in kids as young as single digits these days as a result, etc.?
I disagree with you. The point many of us keep making here is that vaccines are unique in medicine. Childhood vaccines are given to prevent contagious disease from becoming an epidemic and affecting the community at large. Obesity is not desirable, but it is not a contagious disease. Therefore, I just don't see the hand of "Big Brother" reaching in and telling me I can't send my child to school because they weigh too much. I don't argue that this law involves telling parents that if they want to send their children to public school they have to get them vaccinated. My reply to that is that nothing in this world is absolute--including parental rights. Compulsory vaccination is not brand new. It has been compulsory--to various degrees--in each of the fifty states for the last 100 + years.
If we are truly concerned with kids health/large health epidemics of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer which is largely preventable if people follow certain lifestyle parameters,:
I ask this question to those who are pro mandatory vaccines via gov decree.....given the millions of preventable cases of cancer and heart attacks that lifesytle changes would prevent and all the pain/suffering/cost associated with it, and how many bad habits start in childhood and carry over to adulthood, I trust you would be for mandatory gov lifestyle changes, what parents can/can't feed their kids, maintaining a certain weight, etc, ruling over parental choice, to greatly reduce the odds of these serious health issues from occuring, just like said mandatory vaccines will do?
You miss the key distinction that I pointed out above. Measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, polio, and the other childhood diseases are contagious. Heart attacks and cancer are not contagious disease. The distinction is critical because it is the reason the courts relied on upholding compulsory vaccination laws under the police powers of a state. I don't deny that being overweight and making other poor lifestyle choices have health implications. However, they are not contagious and these problems are best dealt with through education.
And the answer is NO, it's not different. If kids health is the paramount issue here, which is the bottom line issue in all of this for mandatory vaccines, we'd be doing more things via gov decree for parents who aren't make the right lifestyle/diet choices for their kids that can indeed cause a bunch of current/future serious health issues, correct?
Your wrong. Its very different. The choice to feed your kids a diet that allows them to become overweight affects your children. The choice not to vaccinate your children for an infectious disease affects the entire community because those not vaccinated, not only can catch a disease, they can spread it as well. Its why the two problems have been dealt with differently for over a 100 years.
Look guys, you tried every argument imaginable to justify not having to vaccinate your kids. You lost in the legislature where it counted and if you challenge the constitutionality of the law, you'll lose in the courts too.
How about being good sports and either accepting the law and getting your kids they shots they need? We can then bring all this hyperbole to an end.
Jim Carrey is not happy with California Gov. Jerry Brown.
The actor, 53, believes there is a link between vaccines and autism and called Brown a "corporate fascist" after he signed into law one of the strictest immunization programs in the country Tuesday.
The bill would require kids at daycares and schools to be vaccinated unless there's a serious medical reason why they shouldn't be. Personal or religious exemptions would not be permitted, and if parents disagree, they can home-school their kids. Only two states, Mississippi and West Virginia, are as strict.
I don't know, when you consider the flood of immigrants coming from Mexico, Central and South America that land in California and few of them have been vaccinated against anything I think a parent would be foolish not to immunize their kid against a disease.
Of course making it law will upset people just like Obama care did. No one likes to be told what to do.
Does anyone take Jim Carrey seriously? He seems like he is "out there".
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Maybe they should face some jail time, or have to "home practice" if this happens. lol
Jim Carrey Goes on Twitter Rant Over California's Vaccine Bill, Calls Gov. Jerry Brown a "Corporate Fascist"
