Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I used to work for Palantir and we were able to put together a system which determined exactly which children in Marin county were not vaccinated based on aggregate data related to their parents social media posts and cross referencing records from doctor's offices, walgreens, CVS, etc. NSA was not really needed. Given 3 or more social media posts cross referenced with other metadata its very easy to figure this information out.
We all should trust these people because of what? Some special magic potion that eliminates their human characteristics? Please! I crack up every time people quote medical professionals. They aren't doing themselves any favors. I wouldn't even admit I worked in medicine. Our system is horrid. You here this yearly on the news. I don't even bat an eye anymore. Most of us just cross our fingers when we go to the hospital.
Wat, what happened to the whole herd needs vaccination or it wont work crap?
The whole herd does not need to be vaccinated, but about 95% of it does. That leaves a small percentage of unvaccinated: those with medical exemptions.
Quote:
Its not drivel. Companies spent money on R&D for the vaccine. If the vaccine doesnt take off, thats money wasted and a loss to the company.
Look at the drug Sovaldi (not a Vaccine) for HepC. Again, companies claim that they spent a whole ton of money on R&D, and that's why the drug (covered by a miniscule amount of drug plans) costs $1,000 a pill.
I agree with you on the herds of homeschoolers, but probably for different reasons. In a society full of single mothers or both parents need to work for the survivial of the family, homeschooling is just not practical. But if a family has a network of other family members, homeschooling can be done cooperatively, just like daycare.
However, there are plenty of people that are affluent enough to find homeschooling an easy proposition, and if 1 state or even country doesnt allow homeschooling, moving is no big deal for them.
Single parents can and do home school. Anyone who is motivated can find a way. It is not poor people who are refusing to vaccinate their children, it's affluent families with college educated mothers. They can afford to live on one salary. If a poor child is unvaccinated, it is much more likely to be due to difficulty of access, and that is something that can be remedied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I seriously think you underestimate the size across the entire country. Not a small group when you consider states other than California. Then you get into the subject of parents who do vaccinate on a delayed schedule, for some but not others (especially HPV, Flu Shots). That makes the numbers even larger. Pregnant women refusing to be vaccinated during pregnancy? Babies being born without their mothers vaccinations?
Fully vaccinated for Kinder entry? That is IT? Of course not. They will require vaccinations through their school years. Will they not only be denied Kinder entry, will they be kicked out AFTER they are already in public school for not being up to date? Middle school child doesn't get their Tdap? Sorry, you are EXPELLED.
The California law apparently grandfathers in current unvaccinated students. The mandate is not just for kindergarten. It also includes seventh graders.
Quote:
Of course you think that once a parent vaccinates, they will vaccinate for EVERYTHING? Yeah, right. Been there, done that.
Parents will need to vaccinate according to the list in the law. Anything else is up to them to choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52
I would say there is definately an angle there. A parent is not allowed to fear a child with HIV (and Im not saying they should), but must fear a child that has not been vaccinated against less severe diseases?
That seems like a reasonable question.
Im not saying they would necessarily win - but its not insane either.
Your problem is that you persist in being blind to what vaccine preventable diseases can do. A child is more likely to get measles from a classmate than HIV. Measles can be fatal.
The most convincing white paper I've read on the subject of autism links it to the overstimulation in the brain caused by being flopped down in front of the tv.
Remember when we used to build forts, climb trees, ring and run?
Now we have 24/7 cartoons. It ain't like the old days when you went out to play when Soul Train came on. Vaccinations, my pink ass.
Kids cannot even play outside, unsupervised, without some busy body calling the police and getting CPS involved. People wonder why childhood obesity is out of control. It wasn't like this 20+ years ago. By the way, I agree with you about the vaccinations.
In fact, vaccines were so unprofitable that some companies stopped making them altogether. In 1967, there were 26 vaccine manufactures. That number dropped to 17 by 1980. Ten years ago, the financial incentives to produce vaccines were so weak that there was growing concern that pharmaceutical companies were abandoning the vaccine business for selling more-profitable daily drug treatments. Compared with drugs that require daily doses, vaccines are only administered once a year or a lifetime. The pharmaceutical company Wyeth (which has since been acquired by Pfizer) reported that they stopped making the flu vaccine because the margins were so low.
Yet you insist that manufacturers are only in the business to make money. Which is it? They are making a profit on vaccines or not making a profit on vaccines? Hint: we've been telling you all along that drug companies do not make big profits on vaccines.
Quote:
Try just being honest. Maybe then more people will stop finding your suspicious. Vaccines are profitable, so what? We have a for profit health care system, so what? The ability to sue a drug company has been stopped. They have no liability, so patients have no recourse other than their lowly funded compensation fund which has a list of what is acceptable injury or death.
The compensation fund makes generous awards, and people who would lose if they sued the manufacturers get compensation because the rare complications caused by vaccines do not happen due to anything done by the companies that make them. The no fault system is better for injured people.
Quote:
So, prove me wrong. Good luck! There are 30,000 injuries and death reported a year to this compensation fund. The probability that they are all coincidence is absurd. Another reason people are skeptical.
You have been told over and over again that this is a lie. Repeating it does not make it true.You are stating that every report to VAERS represents an injury or death. You have been shown multiple examples of reports that are hearsay with no identifiable patient. You have been told time and again that the vast majority of reports of true adverse effects are for minor conditions that cause no lasting harm. You have been told time and again that every report is investigated. You have been told time and again that just because a condition happens after a vaccine is given does not mean the vaccine caused the condition. The existence of a report in VAERS is not proof that the vaccine caused the reported condition.
By the way, VAERS and the compensation fund are totally separate and unrelated entities.
Quote:
Science changes with evidence to the contrary. It's not the final word. It's proven wrong all the time, it welcomes it. It helps to improve our life.
It's not "proven wrong all the time". There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism. It does not exist. Each study done just adds more to that pile of evidence. All the wishful thinking in the world is not going to change that.
Quote:
Parents should be the ones making the choice too risk a vaccine injury or death for their own child, however small it is. Not you or any group of you. Because, there will be vaccine casualties. They aren't 100% effective. You don't get to determine who takes that risk for the team.
If your child is the one who gets injured, you have to be content you made that choice. No parent should feel they were bullied into this, or tricked into this. Transparency and encouragement to make good choices and realize risks would be a more appropriate approach.
The people who are refusing vaccines are incapable of evaluating the benefit to risk equation for vaccines. they are too busy believing that an hour on the internet is as good as four years of medical school and a three year residency, much less a couple of years of a fellowship and ten or fifteen years practice experience or work in a lab. They refuse to admit they do not know nearly as much as they think they do.
Quote:
It should never come down to " your child's well being vs my child's well being" which is what these mandates are creating. And they are all for the guaranteed profit in producing vaccines. I understood this, and I realize we live in a capitalist society. It's not to hard to comprehend. All the propaganda to make people ok with this is meaningless.
Your child's well being is being provided by those who vaccinate their children, accepting the tiny risks associated with vaccines. You are freeloading on those who vaccinate.
You just said drug companies do not make big profits on vaccines. Care to explain why you are contradicting yourself?
Quote:
All this will do is force people who may not want one or two of the mass amounts of vaccines we give our children. This might just encourage them to skip the rest. Not a good idea, and not beneficial. I know a lot of mothers who don't want their kids to have the HPv vaccine. It's mandatory in West Virginia now. They had all the rest. Big deal!
If a parent decides not to give a vaccine that he otherwise would have just because he does not want to give some that are mandated, all I can say is that sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I really doubt it will happen. It sounds stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
The medical community is so concerned with our health. They are so dedicated to their jobs.
We all should trust these people because of what? Some special magic potion that eliminates their human characteristics? Please! I crack up every time people quote medical professionals. They aren't doing themselves any favors. I wouldn't even admit I worked in medicine. Our system is horrid. You here this yearly on the news. I don't even bat an eye anymore. Most of us just cross our fingers when we go to the hospital.
Those of us who have had our relatives and ourselves saved from premature deaths by medicine will disagree with you about medicine in the US.
He is correct to the extent that the government should not coerce things into people's bodies. Vaccinations should be between parents and doctors, not the government.
1. Ebola is not endemic in the US. Even when a vaccine is available it will not be on the list of childhood vaccines for the US.
2. The same old outbreaks will not continue unless parents continue to refuse to vaccinate. Mississippi and West Virginia do not have measles outbreaks.
3. Vaccines have to be paid for in a "non-profit" health care system, too. "Non-profit" does not mean everyone works for free and it does not mean what you seem to think it does.
4. Most people can. A significant number cannot. Some end up in the hospital. A few die.
5. Pediatric deaths are reportable. For 2014-2015, there have been 142 pediatric flu deaths. I can assure you that there have not been 142 deaths from all the childhood vaccines given in the same time frame.
6. Medical professionals are getting fed up with people who think they know more about vaccines than the people who develop and prescribe them. That is why more and more pediatricians are telling parents who refuse to vaccinate their children to take them elsewhere.
Why not stop pretending? No one here believes you support vaccination.
These are the points I wish to lift up.
1. Correct. We do not vaccinate for typhoid, yellow fever, anthrax, or many other diseases that are not endemic in the US.
2. Too true!
3. Absolutely! The same vaccine companies do business in non-profit health care system countries. In this country, Kaiser is non-profit. They use the same vaccines.
4. Agreed.
5. Also, in Colorado, all flu hospitalizations are reportable to the CDPH&E. I suspect this is true in other states as well. I believe I have posted these stats on CD previously. Anyone interested can do a search.
In fact, vaccines were so unprofitable that some companies stopped making them altogether. In 1967, there were 26 vaccine manufactures. That number dropped to 17 by 1980. Ten years ago, the financial incentives to produce vaccines were so weak that there was growing concern that pharmaceutical companies were abandoning the vaccine business for selling more-profitable daily drug treatments. Compared with drugs that require daily doses, vaccines are only administered once a year or a lifetime. The pharmaceutical company Wyeth (which has since been acquired by Pfizer) reported that they stopped making the flu vaccine because the margins were so low.
Try just being honest. Maybe then more people will stop finding your suspicious. Vaccines are profitable, so what? We have a for profit health care system, so what? The ability to sue a drug company has been stopped. Supreme Court vaccine ruling: parents can't sue drug makers for kids' health problems - CBS News They have no liability, so patients have no recourse other than their lowly funded compensation fund which has a list of what is acceptable injury or death.
So, prove me wrong. Good luck! There are 30,000 injuries and death reported a year to this compensation fund. The probability that they are all coincidence is absurd. Another reason people are skeptical.
Science changes with evidence to the contrary. It's not the final word. It's proven wrong all the time, it welcomes it. It helps to improve our life.
Parents should be the ones making the choice too risk a vaccine injury or death for their own child, however small it is. Not you or any group of you. Because, there will be vaccine casualties. They aren't 100% effective. You don't get to determine who takes that risk for the team.
If your child is the one who gets injured, you have to be content you made that choice. No parent should feel they were bullied into this, or tricked into this. Transparency and encouragement to make good choices and realize risks would be a more appropriate approach.
It should never come down to " your child's well being vs my child's well being" which is what these mandates are creating. And they are all for the guaranteed profit in producing vaccines. I understood this, and I realize we live in a capitalist society. It's not to hard to comprehend. All the propaganda to make people ok with this is meaningless.
All this will do is force people who may not want one or two of the mass amounts of vaccines we give our children. This might just encourage them to skip the rest. Not a good idea, and not beneficial. I know a lot of mothers who don't want their kids to have the HPv vaccine. It's mandatory in West Virginia now. They had all the rest. Big deal!
Yes. Suzy says "everything on the list". "Parents can choose the others". Others? HPV and FLU ARE on the CDC list.
Everything on the mandate list. We are discussing the California mandate here.
Right. No flu, no HPV on the CA list.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I crack up every time people quote medical professionals. They aren't doing themselves any favors. I wouldn't even admit I worked in medicine. Our system is horrid. You here this yearly on the news. I don't even bat an eye anymore. Most of us just cross our fingers when we go to the hospital.
