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It wasn't, which is the reason for mandates. Don't be stupid, we have a "for profit" healthcare system. Profit is the bottom line in all corporations, not health. If we cared at all we would fight for a non profit healthcare system. But, then your mandates wouldn't be necessary. What to do....
Mandates are an incentive to keep producing vaccines. That's common knowledge and not a conspiracy theory. There was a fear they would stop producing from threats to do so. These mandates give them a reason to continue.
Stop using science like a religion. It's not. It didn't ask to be used that way. The only way science improves on things is by the mistakes it makes. Scientist are ok with being proven wrong and it's open to do so. There is no God of science, no science bible. No scientist would ever claim just because they said it makes it so like a bible quote. Refuting science is science.
With mandates will come an increase in injury and death. There are casualties in all medicine. I imagine the VAERS reporting system will hire more people to deal with it. Since the drug companies are liable for bad product they are thrilled to continue. What company wouldn't be?
Our healthcare system and it's mistakes are our 3rd largest killer in America. Attaching the advice of a doctor or scientist in this country isn't doing you any favors. The fact that you don't know what the main objective is for drug companies who provide a product in our for profit system isn't helping you either.
Please do some more research, as long as you feel like you are qualified to push mandates from your couch, you might as well know why you are doing it. You after all will be looked to for the responsibility of a child's injury due to a vaccine the parent was coerced into getting in order to keep their kid in school. This will only increase as they add more new vaccines to the mandate like hpv, swine flu, and the new ebola vaccine. You might get use to dealing with a few parents that are upset. I guess as long as it isn't your child you'll be ok with this. Right!
I am not anti vax, I am anti delusion. I chose to vaccinate, but I do not agree with mandates, they are dangerous. It perpetuates a divide and groups the unvaccinated. There are better ways to increase vaccination rates without mandates. What are you going to do with the new herds of homeschoolers? They play, they travel, they shop and they go to theme parks. Are you going to suggest tattoos on the forehead?
You've just lumped a whole group of unvaccinated children together. Congratulations on promoting the spread of disease. We were safer when they were mixed into the herd.
False. Made up drivel with no factual basis. Big long paragraphs don't give it more credibility. I's not worth the bother of refuting the same tired arguments that others have refuted over and over again.
To anyone reading this thread, curious about childhood vaccines:
There is no science refuting the benefits of childhood vaccines. To say so (or even imply it) is false, misleading and dangerous.
"Herds of homeschoolers" well that's a nice new angle. It's strange to argue against mandates because a small group won't get vaccinated with mandates. I suppose if that occurs the health care system will have to deal with it.
^^^This. Also, with the illegals, they are bringing in things you cannot vaccinate against for both us, our children and our pets. I think I live in the lice and bedbug capital of the world! The dogs at the shelter got an unknown and this winter, there was a mystery illness being called different things by different doctors. Illegal fever I call it!
If I could take back the vaccinations given my youngest son, an adult with special needs, I'd do it in a minute. I survived those things and am healthy and thriving at 60 years old. Don't let the medical machine $$$$$$$$$ dictate your health.
Your kid has special needs due to inheriting your genes, not vaccines.
Where does it say Right to Equality in Education EXCEPT IF? Except if you are an illegal child? Except if you are an unvaccinated child?
As a Civil Rights issue, this could be sued in Federal Court. Individual or Class Action suit against the State of California, which would be heard in Federal Court. Unequal treatment under the law.
Best people to sue would be parents of children in Head Start since that is a Federal Program, and Federal monies are given to the states for that program, which pay part of the wages for staff in HS.
Suzy, don't quote me Jacobson. There is no PANDEMIC of any disease in the US, for them to impose Martial Law. Even when a Flu Pandemic was declared in 2009, the Feds did not use that law. THINK ABOUT THAT, Suzy. It would have been political suicide to force a flu shot on all citizens, not to mention a whole of, perhaps, armed resistance if the health police came knocking on people's doors.
Be a Good Sport? Hell, no, when it comes to your own body, and your children's, that is THE most important thing YOU own. Since my children are adults, and I am retired from Education, this doesn't apply to my particular situation, YET. However, I on the basis of ANY mandatory medical treatment, I will try to do my part. I most definitely will not be a "good sport" as an adult WHEN, not if, they come after me. Take your Tdap, Hep. B. Flu, Shingles, etc, and stick it where your sun doesn't shine.
You underestimate public on this.
You think the politicians didn't consider "the public"? Their job is to represent the interests of the vast majority of people who believe in science, who want their children safe and healthy and who are willing to do their part (vaccination) for both their children and the public good.
If parents don't choose to vaccinate, they can choose to homeschool.
This has nothing to do with adults, you know that. You can save the angst for another day instead of trying to confuse the issue of childhood vaccines.
You cannot see the forest for the trees. Will these unvaccinated home schooled children be quarantined in the HOMES for life? No home schooled child will ever be allowed in public anywhere? How will you ever know if some diseased child in the park or playground next to your precious snowflake has ever been vaccinated? Tell me HOW you will even know??????
Do you think that will ever happen? This is a form of punishment that will not solve your problem of Herd Immunity.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-01-2015 at 02:30 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,146,559 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver
False. Made up drivel with no factual basis. Big long paragraphs don't give it more credibility. I's not worth the bother of refuting the same tired arguments that others have refuted over and over again.
To anyone reading this thread, curious about childhood vaccines:
There is no science refuting the benefits of childhood vaccines. To say so (or even imply it) is false, misleading and dangerous.
"Herds of homeschoolers" well that's a nice new angle. It's strange to argue against mandates because a small group won't get vaccinated with mandates. I suppose if that occurs the health care system will have to deal with it.
Wat, what happened to the whole herd needs vaccination or it wont work crap?
You are not reading, you are ranting now. Try focusing on just the last line.
Its not drivel. Companies spent money on R&D for the vaccine. If the vaccine doesnt take off, thats money wasted and a loss to the company.
Look at the drug Sovaldi (not a Vaccine) for HepC. Again, companies claim that they spent a whole ton of money on R&D, and that's why the drug (covered by a miniscule amount of drug plans) costs $1,000 a pill.
I agree with you on the herds of homeschoolers, but probably for different reasons. In a society full of single mothers or both parents need to work for the survivial of the family, homeschooling is just not practical. But if a family has a network of other family members, homeschooling can be done cooperatively, just like daycare.
However, there are plenty of people that are affluent enough to find homeschooling an easy proposition, and if 1 state or even country doesnt allow homeschooling, moving is no big deal for them.
False. Made up drivel with no factual basis. Big long paragraphs don't give it more credibility. I's not worth the bother of refuting the same tired arguments that others have refuted over and over again.
To anyone reading this thread, curious about childhood vaccines:
There is no science refuting the benefits of childhood vaccines. To say so (or even imply it) is false, misleading and dangerous.
"Herds of homeschoolers" well that's a nice new angle. It's strange to argue against mandates because a small group won't get vaccinated with mandates. I suppose if that occurs the health care system will have to deal with it.
I seriously think you underestimate the size across the entire country. Not a small group when you consider states other than California. Then you get into the subject of parents who do vaccinate on a delayed schedule, for some but not others (especially HPV, Flu Shots). That makes the numbers even larger. Pregnant women refusing to be vaccinated during pregnancy? Babies being born without their mothers vaccinations?
Fully vaccinated for Kinder entry? That is IT? Of course not. They will require vaccinations through their school years. Will they not only be denied Kinder entry, will they be kicked out AFTER they are already in public school for not being up to date? Middle school child doesn't get their Tdap? Sorry, you are EXPELLED.
Of course you think that once a parent vaccinates, they will vaccinate for EVERYTHING? Yeah, right. Been there, done that.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-01-2015 at 07:19 PM..
Reason: Fixed formatting
Where does it say Right to Equality in Education EXCEPT IF? Except if you are an illegal child? Except if you are an unvaccinated child?
As a Civil Rights issue, this could be sued in Federal Court. Individual or Class Action suit against the State of California, which would be heard in Federal Court. Unequal treatment under the law.
Best people to sue would be parents of children in Head Start since that is a Federal Program, and Federal monies are given to the states for that program, which pay part of the wages for staff in HS.
Suzy, don't quote me Jacobson. There is no PANDEMIC of any disease in the US, for them to impose Martial Law. Even when a Flu Pandemic was declared in 2009, the Feds did not use that law. THINK ABOUT THAT, Suzy. It would have been political suicide to force a flu shot on all citizens, not to mention a whole of, perhaps, armed resistance if the health police came knocking on people's doors.
Be a Good Sport? Hell, no, when it comes to your own body, and your children's, that is THE most important thing YOU own. Since my children are adults, and I am retired from Education, this doesn't apply to my particular situation, YET. However, I on the basis of ANY mandatory medical treatment, I will try to do my part. I most definitely will not be a "good sport" as an adult WHEN, not if, they come after me. Take your Tdap, Hep. B. Flu, Shingles, etc, and stick it where your sun doesn't shine.
You underestimate public on this.
I would say there is definately an angle there. A parent is not allowed to fear a child with HIV (and Im not saying they should), but must fear a child that has not been vaccinated against less severe diseases?
That seems like a reasonable question.
Im not saying they would necessarily win - but its not insane either.
Ahhhh... nothing. Otherwise there would be a post about how much fun it will be to see conservatives argue among themselves during the upcoming Presidential debates. (Oh crap, I guess I just did )
Wat, what happened to the whole herd needs vaccination or it wont work crap?
You are not reading, you are ranting now. Try focusing on just the last line.
Its not drivel. Companies spent money on R&D for the vaccine. If the vaccine doesnt take off, thats money wasted and a loss to the company.
Look at the drug Sovaldi (not a Vaccine) for HepC. Again, companies claim that they spent a whole ton of money on R&D, and that's why the drug (covered by a miniscule amount of drug plans) costs $1,000 a pill.
I agree with you on the herds of homeschoolers, but probably for different reasons. In a society full of single mothers or both parents need to work for the survivial of the family, homeschooling is just not practical. But if a family has a network of other family members, homeschooling can be done cooperatively, just like daycare.
However, there are plenty of people that are affluent enough to find homeschooling an easy proposition, and if 1 state or even country doesnt allow homeschooling, moving is no big deal for them.
Both my daughter and SIL are teachers. My daughter only does tutoring since my Grandson was born. They have considered homeschooling and certainly are qualified to do so (Elementary and HS). If other family members and friends should like to join this, they could. No state regulations for home schooled family members. Not poor, but certainly not rich either. This certainly would be an option for stay at home mothers.
I myself went to parochial school, and my kids did for a time. This law does not apply to those schools. They wave tuition for poor familes. That is an option too. This California law not applicable to them. Besides increasing the numbers of homeschooling, enrollment at parochial schools would probably increase also.
People will find a way to get around this if they sincerely have the motivation to do so. These pro vaccination people would have to pass a Federal Law mandating every single child, no matter where they were schooled, be vaccinated. lol Good luck with that one. If nothing else, Republicans in Congress, who would not vote for the ACA, are going to vote for something like this? Wanna buy a bridge, as we say where I am from.
I don't know, when you consider the flood of immigrants coming from Mexico, Central and South America that land in California and few of them have been vaccinated against anything I think a parent would be foolish not to immunize their kid against a disease.
Of course making it law will upset people just like Obama care did. No one likes to be told what to do.
Does anyone take Jim Carrey seriously? He seems like he is "out there".
More immigrants from Latin America are vaccinated than rich white kids in California
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That is an option too. This California law not applicable to them. Besides increasing the numbers of homeschooling, enrollment at parochial schools would probably increase also.
These pro vaccination people would have to pass a Federal Law mandating every single child, no matter where they were schooled, be vaccinated. lol Good luck with that one. If nothing else, Republicans in Congress, who would not vote for the ACA, are going to vote for something like this? Wanna buy a bridge, as we say where I am from.