Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Homeschool is not a real "option" for many kids. This is like saying if you don't want to be searched by the police then you have the option of staying in your house all the time. It infringes on your rights and it is no real option, just extortion.
It covers discrimination against handicap which I would take to be the kids that cannot be vaccinated because of a medical condition. I don't see anything about not having any requirements for admission.
I am sure they went over every word of the constitution before they did this.
He is correct to the extent that the government should not coerce things into people's bodies. Vaccinations should be between parents and doctors, not the government.
And it still is. Parents have a choice to not vaccinate their children. Schools have the choice not to allow those children to attend.
Choice on both sides. No one is forced to vaccinate their children.
False. Made up drivel with no factual basis. Big long paragraphs don't give it more credibility. I's not worth the bother of refuting the same tired arguments that others have refuted over and over again.
To anyone reading this thread, curious about childhood vaccines:
There is no science refuting the benefits of childhood vaccines. To say so (or even imply it) is false, misleading and dangerous.
"Herds of homeschoolers" well that's a nice new angle. It's strange to argue against mandates because a small group won't get vaccinated with mandates. I suppose if that occurs the health care system will have to deal with it.
He used to bang what's-her-name, Jennie something, who was the ringleader for the anti vac crowd. These people are idiots. Vaccines are the only, let me repeat that, ONLY form of medicine that has eradicated disease, rather than profited from it.
People in the press are being wiretapped, followed and harassed at airports and the celebrities say nothing.
Commenters on an online website who write their opinion that someone in politics should burn in hell, and the DOJ not only wants their names, they give the site a gag order so they cannot discuss it, and when the order is lifted and this news comes out, nobody talks about it.
More and more information has been released that things most people have in their home, cell phones, computers, laptops, digital cable boxes, have the capability of recording our every conversation and move, and people are silent.
We now have proof that without good cause, without warrants, the NSA has collected our communication and people lied under oath about this without being punished.
We have lost a number of our civil liberties and Hollywood and the rest of America remain in a fog, passive little sheep acting like all is right with the world, but pass a law in one state that was passed in other states years ago, and all of a sudden people are talking about their rights.
Where have you people, and your celebrity counterparts, been all these years???
Every single post I have made is backed up by CONCLUSIVE medical evidence (see ALL the links above from all the pro-science posters above), not opinions of celebrities, home economists or mommy bloggers.
omg, you mean that you are just a random internet poster dispensing medical advice? Say it ain't so.
Right, makes sense. I guess what I'm leading up to is how many kids in CA are not vaccinated/attending schools currently? If it's only a small %, and most are vaccinated, it seems at present without any law being passed, epidemics would remain small anyways and affect mostly those kids who's parents didn't vaccinate.
They also affect children too young to be vaccinated even if their parents had planned to do so. With measles, it's easy for an infected child to be brought to the doctor and infect babies in the pediatrician's waiting room - or the ER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
Some pediatricians say not to vaccinate if a sibling has Autism or other similar disorders. Some don't.
There are autism advocacy groups who now support vaccination.
"Over the last two decades extensive research has asked whether there is any link between childhood vaccines and autism. Scientific research has not directly connected autism to vaccines. Vaccines are very important. Parents must make the decision whether to vaccinate their children. Efforts must be continually made to educate parents about vaccine safety. If parents decide not to vaccinate they must be aware of the consequences in their community and their local schools."
Autism is not a contraindication to vaccination. Since vaccines do not cause autism, having a sibling with autism is not a contradiction to vaccination.
Quote:
I guess some will just go to the doctor that will write one. Should be big business now. Some peds can get patients they didn't have before. Just as I predicted would happen. Let the war begin.
I would hope that a physician would not write a fraudulent medical exemption, and I suspect that not too many will be willing to risk being censured for lying. Would you really want to take your child to a doctor who is willing to lie? Would you respect a doctor who would lie about a disability for an adult?
Quote:
Hopefully all doctors start learning to store the damn things correctly. Maybe they should face some jail time, or have to "home practice" if this happens.
Should a grocery store owner face jail time if a refrigeration unit malfunctions? In the incident in your link no one was harmed. It is not even clear that anyone will need to be revaccinated. The primary concern is whether the vaccines that were affected would work, not that they would be dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
The only impact it will have is the increased injury and death reports from vaccines. But the same old outbreaks will continue. But, it's not about health, it's about our wonderful "for profit" healthcare system.
What's next? I can't wait for the new Ebola vaccine they will be adding to that list down the road.
California just made a huge mistake. I'll now just watch it unfold.
The number of people who have not vaccinated in the past but who will vaccinate in the future is small enough that there will be no significant increase in the number of serious complications, which will still be tiny.
Ebola is not endemic in the US. Even when a vaccine is available it will not be on the list of childhood vaccines for the US.
The same old outbreaks will not continue unless parents continue to refuse to vaccinate. Mississippi and West Virginia do not have measles outbreaks.
Vaccines have to be paid for in a "non-profit" health care system, too. "Non-profit" does not mean everyone works for free and it does not mean what you seem to think it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
I have mixed feelings on this, the freedom of choice of parents vs risk of getting something potentially serious. I'm a jaded individual when medicine/politics/money are all in the mix together. I also believe some rulings like this can open a Pandora's box. Who decides when/what vaccines will be required in the future? Flu vaccines for everyone eventually or you can't go to school?
But more than anything beyond the vaccine thing, I see a potentially slippery slope in all of this. And I'm not picking on vaccines per se, just how far should decisions be made by gov vs parents go? Many hear say the risk is serious enough for kids who aren't vaccinated against certain things. For those I ask....would you be comfortable with the gov telling parents how much a kid should weigh/what to feed them because after all, we know being obese comes with a host of health problems, immunity issues, type II adult onset diabetes in kids as young as single digits these days as a result, etc.?
I ask this question to those who are pro mandatory vaccines via gov decree.....given the millions of preventable cases of cancer and heart attacks that lifesytle changes would prevent and all the pain/suffering/cost associated with it, and how many bad habits start in childhood and carry over to adulthood, I trust you would be for mandatory gov lifestyle changes, what parents can/can't feed their kids, maintaining a certain weight, etc, ruling over parental choice, to greatly reduce the odds of these serious health issues from occuring, just like said mandatory vaccines will do?
And the answer is NO, it's not different. If kids health is the paramount issue here, which is the bottom line issue in all of this for mandatory vaccines, we'd be doing more things via gov decree for parents who aren't make the right lifestyle/diet choices for their kids that can indeed cause a bunch of current/future serious health issues, correct?
As Mark pointed out, vaccination is indeed a special case, because not vaccinating affects children in other families. Parents can already be held responsible if they do not feed their children properly. Should a parent have the "right" to starve his child? If the overfeeding of a child results in serious adverse health effects that cause the child to end up in the hospital, is that not just as abusive as withholding food to the point of starvation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey
California again succeeds in stomping on religious freedom, privacy, and body autonomy.
No one who does not wish to vaccinate will be made to do so. Parents will just have to decide whether the benefit of the child attending school outweighs whatever the parent perceives as the risk of vaccination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52
The non-honey is watching your Doctor become outraged that you dont feel you need the vaccine. It seems like an irrational responce to something most of us view as mundane, and have viewed as mundane for decades already.
Vaccine preventable diseases are not "mundane". Your inability to understand that just shows that you have absolutely no idea what those diseases can do.
Quote:
I was recently in an Emergency Room, where the first thing anyone entering the ED was offered was a Flu Shot during the triage phase. I happen to have needed to stay in the triage area for a good period of time. It did surprise me that literally everyone turned it down saying, "No, I dont want it." Not that they already had it - but they didnt want it. It was refreshing to see the person offering it not become irrate at the patients, but they did scowl and turn a cold shoulder. It was as if their paycheck required a certain amount of vaccine to be given.
What is happening to turn the public off to the idea of preventing the flu? I would look at the notion that the conspiracy theorists are winning as being just as rediculous as the theories themselves.
How do you know that no one who declined the vaccine did so because he had not already had it?
Quote:
Most of us can stay in bed a few days with orange juice, chicken soup and a bottle of aspirin and conquer the flu and/or flu-like-illness. Even those of us that are said to have compromised immune-systems from another condition. The change in reporting seems interesting too. Even a chronic cigarrette smoker displays flu-like symptoms. They cough a lot.
Most people can. A significant number cannot. Some end up in the hospital. A few die.
Quote:
Although thousands are reported to be dying from the flu (the diagnosis is only truely ascertainable through a blood test), that is a very small percentage compared to the total population. Even if we limited that figure to the population of NYC alone, with a population of 8 million people (+/-), its still a very small percentage of the population.
Enough cases are ascertained through confirmatory testing that estimates of national numbers of flu deaths can be made.
Pediatric deaths are reportable. For 2014-2015, there have been 142 pediatric flu deaths. I can assure you that there have not been 142 deaths from all the childhood vaccines given in the same time frame.
Quote:
Since most of us are hard-pressed to think of anyone we know or ever knew throughout our lives that has died from the flu, mandating a vaccine for it also can create suspicion, and bring about conspiracy theories.
That you personally do not know anyone who died from flu is a worthless factoid. It does not mean no one dies from flu or that flu deaths are rare. They are not.
Quote:
Medical professionals and scientists can assume whatever posture they want for flu vaccination, but its not in either their or any patient's best interest to create an environment where people dont want to seek their help, or start viewing their advice skeptically.
Medical professionals are getting fed up with people who think they know more about vaccines than the people who develop and prescribe them. That is why more and more pediatricians are telling parents who refuse to vaccinate their children to take them elsewhere.
Quote:
At the onset of the first mandates, even medical professionals were asking, why should I have a vaccination, when Ive never had the flu?
Any "medical professional" who does not know the answer to that question should not be taking care of patients.
Quote:
They give free vaccinations at the hospital where I work. It is also interesting to see Doctors there getting their vaccination elsewhere. You would think they would get the free one readily available at their workplace, wouldnt you? But, maybe there is a certain amount of comfort to having the ability to research the vaccines available, and order your own. *shrugs*
Most doctors are not hospital employees. Many get it through their own workplaces. Perhaps they want their employees to know that they are vaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Maybe this needs to be taken up in FEDERAL Court, instead of losing in the STATE Legislature.
Where does it say Right to Equality in Education EXCEPT IF? Except if you are an illegal child? Except if you are an unvaccinated child?
As a Civil Rights issue, this could be sued in Federal Court. Individual or Class Action suit against the State of California, which would be heard in Federal Court. Unequal treatment under the law.
Best people to sue would be parents of children in Head Start since that is a Federal Program, and Federal monies are given to the states for that program, which pay part of the wages for staff in HS.
Suzy, don't quote me Jacobson. There is no PANDEMIC of any disease in the US, for them to impose Martial Law. Even when a Flu Pandemic was declared in 2009, the Feds did not use that law. THINK ABOUT THAT, Suzy. It would have been political suicide to force a flu shot on all citizens, not to mention a whole of, perhaps, armed resistance if the health police came knocking on people's doors.
Be a Good Sport? Hell, no, when it comes to your own body, and your children's, that is THE most important thing YOU own. Since my children are adults, and I am retired from Education, this doesn't apply to my particular situation, YET. However, I on the basis of ANY mandatory medical treatment, I will try to do my part. I most definitely will not be a "good sport" as an adult WHEN, not if, they come after me. Take your Tdap, Hep. B. Flu, Shingles, etc, and stick it where your sun doesn't shine.
You underestimate public on this.
There was no pandemic when court ordered vaccination for measles during a measles outbreak in Philadelphia in the 1990s. Children were dying. Parents have no "right" to let their kids die from preventable infectious diseases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
A child's diet/lifestyle and the health issues that result does indeed go way beyond themselves and does indeed affect other kids and the entire community. Let's start with a kid who doesn't eat right. That kid eating junk food all the time, not eating lots of fruits and vegetables, will get sick more because their immune system isn't up to par and will get things like the cold and flu more often, passing this on to other kids and people in the community. And no, the answer isn't pull them out of school and problem solved(we could say the same for vaccinated kids too if this were true, right?). Before a person gets serious symptoms, they are passing the virus to others. There will be lost productivity, in school and eventually the work force(last I knew kids grow up to be working adults) when kids get health issues from a bad lifestyle/diet, strain on our healthcare system/cost associated with it, etc.
My point in all of this is asking where does it end? One can make lots of arguments for more government control on other choices parents make and frankly, some might be ok with new controls for valid reasons to some as I made above. I'm not saying that vaccines are right/wrong, you missed the point of my entire post you responded too and it appears you took it a little too personal of an attack on vaccines. I see gray here. And I see a potential snowball running downhill. You seem to see it as "just do it and shut up" and this decision exists in a vacuum with no potential ramifications beyond it. We disagree strongly on this point, and vaccines have nothing to do with what we disagree with....there's a bigger issue I'm making here.
What your child eats does not affect a child in another family. Vaccinated children will still get colds, whether they catch it from a fat kid or a skinny kid is irrelevant. If your child is fat but otherwise healthy, the government will not intervene. If your child is so fat he is being hospitalized for obesity related conditions, a report may be made to CPS.
Vaccine mandates exist to reduce the risk of things that can be prevented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
It wasn't, which is the reason for mandates. Don't be stupid, we have a "for profit" healthcare system. Profit is the bottom line in all corporations, not health. If we cared at all we would fight for a non profit healthcare system. But, then your mandates wouldn't be necessary. What to do....
"Non-profit" does not mean what you apparently think it does. Even countries with nationalized health plans can have vaccine mandates, such as those in Australia mentioned above.
So, please tell us what you mean by "a non profit healthcare system."
Quote:
Mandates are an incentive to keep producing vaccines. That's common knowledge and not a conspiracy theory. There was a fear they would stop producing from threats to do so. These mandates give them a reason to continue.
The mandates affect only a small number of people. The additional doses of vaccines that will be administered will create a barely perceptible blip in the drug companies bottom lines.
Quote:
Stop using science like a religion. It's not. It didn't ask to be used that way. The only way science improves on things is by the mistakes it makes. Scientist are ok with being proven wrong and it's open to do so. There is no God of science, no science bible. No scientist would ever claim just because they said it makes it so like a bible quote. Refuting science is science.
No one in science claims what you are saying, so why are you saying it? It makes no sense.
Quote:
With mandates will come an increase in injury and death. There are casualties in all medicine. I imagine the VAERS reporting system will hire more people to deal with it. Since the drug companies are liable for bad product they are thrilled to continue. What company wouldn't be?
The risks of vaccines are tiny. The additional number of people vaccinated will result in still a tiny risk of adverse effects.
If VAERS needs more employees, it will be to deal with the "I heard on TV" or "I read on the internet" bogus reports about vaccine complications.
Quote:
Our healthcare system and it's mistakes are our 3rd largest killer in America. Attaching the advice of a doctor or scientist in this country isn't doing you any favors. The fact that you don't know what the main objective is for drug companies who provide a product in our for profit system isn't helping you either.
Please tell me you do not see a doctor for anything.
Quote:
Please do some more research, as long as you feel like you are qualified to push mandates from your couch, you might as well know why you are doing it. You after all will be looked to for the responsibility of a child's injury due to a vaccine the parent was coerced into getting in order to keep their kid in school. This will only increase as they add more new vaccines to the mandate like hpv, swine flu, and the new ebola vaccine. You might get use to dealing with a few parents that are upset. I guess as long as it isn't your child you'll be ok with this.
The fact that you do not understand why children in the US will not be vaccinated against Ebola just underscores that you do not understand infectious disease or vaccines at all.
Quote:
I am not anti vax,
Why not stop pretending? No one here believes you support vaccination.
Quote:
I am anti delusion. I chose to vaccinate, but I do not agree with mandates, they are dangerous. It perpetuates a divide and groups the unvaccinated. There are better ways to increase vaccination rates without mandates. What are you going to do with the new herds of homeschoolers? They play, they travel, they shop and they go to theme parks. Are you going to suggest tattoos on the forehead?
You've just lumped a whole group of unvaccinated children together. Congratulations on promoting the spread of disease. We were safer when they were mixed into the herd.
The unvaccinated children are already lumped together. Now there will be fewer of them because of mandates.
In fact, vaccines were so unprofitable that some companies stopped making them altogether. In 1967, there were 26 vaccine manufactures. That number dropped to 17 by 1980. Ten years ago, the financial incentives to produce vaccines were so weak that there was growing concern that pharmaceutical companies were abandoning the vaccine business for selling more-profitable daily drug treatments. Compared with drugs that require daily doses, vaccines are only administered once a year or a lifetime. The pharmaceutical company Wyeth (which has since been acquired by Pfizer) reported that they stopped making the flu vaccine because the margins were so low.
Try just being honest. Maybe then more people will stop finding your suspicious. Vaccines are profitable, so what? We have a for profit health care system, so what? The ability to sue a drug company has been stopped. Supreme Court vaccine ruling: parents can't sue drug makers for kids' health problems - CBS News They have no liability, so patients have no recourse other than their lowly funded compensation fund which has a list of what is acceptable injury or death.
So, prove me wrong. Good luck! There are 30,000 injuries and death reported a year to this compensation fund. The probability that they are all coincidence is absurd. Another reason people are skeptical.
Science changes with evidence to the contrary. It's not the final word. It's proven wrong all the time, it welcomes it. It helps to improve our life.
Parents should be the ones making the choice too risk a vaccine injury or death for their own child, however small it is. Not you or any group of you. Because, there will be vaccine casualties. They aren't 100% effective. You don't get to determine who takes that risk for the team.
If your child is the one who gets injured, you have to be content you made that choice. No parent should feel they were bullied into this, or tricked into this. Transparency and encouragement to make good choices and realize risks would be a more appropriate approach.
It should never come down to " your child's well being vs my child's well being" which is what these mandates are creating. And they are all for the guaranteed profit in producing vaccines. I understood this, and I realize we live in a capitalist society. It's not to hard to comprehend. All the propaganda to make people ok with this is meaningless.
All this will do is force people who may not want one or two of the mass amounts of vaccines we give our children. This might just encourage them to skip the rest. Not a good idea, and not beneficial. I know a lot of mothers who don't want their kids to have the HPv vaccine. It's mandatory in West Virginia now. They had all the rest. Big deal!
Nope. Quoting ACTUAL doctors - and suggesting at every juncture that anyone with any concerns about vaccines talk to an actual doctor. Read above.
Legislation passed. Anti-vaxxers lost. Science and strong public health policy won.
Oooh, quoting actual doctors? Hilarious!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's strange to argue against mandates because a small group won't get vaccinated with mandates. I suppose if that occurs the health care system will have to deal with it.
- and suggesting at every juncture that anyone with any concerns about vaccines talk to an actual doctor. Read above. 
