Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm tired of hearing about how minorities benefit from Affirmative Action. Legacy kids have benefited for generations in getting into these schools! Whites have benefited for possibly millennia in every possible way! And NOW, we all get in a huff about a few non-whites who may have gotten pushed forward a few notches in the long line to attend a good school, after also being subjected to other hardships just to get to that point....so the f#*k what?!
I'm not saying they didn't earn it, but Ivy Leagues do look at ethnic background as a 'plus' for whether or not they get accepted... so it might explain how they got accepted by all 8. Their backgrounds aren't exactly typical Ivy League material, which definitely explains why there was so much interest.
When there's that much competition, the ethnicity thing is a definite advantage... the schools are actually being called out on it lately. Harvard was hit with a lawsuit just last year over discriminatory admissions.
I'm not trying to downplay their achievement, it's just that stories like this reek of 'land of opportunity' propaganda designed to distract people from the growing inequalities in society, and it always rubs me the wrong way.
Also, the Daily Mail is objectively trash.
These places are swamped with over qualified applicants. They turn away way more perfect SAT scores than they admit. Admissions people fully admit that provided you have the scores and the extracurriculars whether you get admitted or not is fully dependant on who reads your application and how they felt that day. So can you blame them for looking for kids who have the qualifications, but also that something more? The odds of a middle class kid with involved university educated parents going to a well-rated high school doing badly on their SATs, not having enough extracurriculars or messing up their essay is minimal compared to a kid whose non-English speaking parents never went to high school, each work two jobs and think that the kid should be working, not studying. The kid who overcame all that crap is way more likely to use their opportunity than a kid who did well because they had no choice in the matter.
Like it or not, and regardless of skin colour, my kids have a significant advantage in life because we're highly educated. There's a college admissions documentary on youtube where one of the kids didn't get accepted to college because he didn't finish his application and had no idea. Apparently one of the problems with first generation college kids is knowing you have to do things before the first day of class. From a position of priviledge you can't even understand what they don't know.
Even the choice to pay the money to apply to all the ivies is not something people who have experience would do, which is why you're not seeing any articles about Matthew Jones-Millbury who got perfect SATs, was captain of the rowing team, started a non-profit and spent four years boarding at Phillips Academy and got into all eight ivies. His parents, his counsellor and he knew to only apply to a couple, plus a couple of less prestigious places and a safety.
Last edited by WildColonialGirl; 05-10-2015 at 07:07 AM..
These places are swamped with over qualified applicants. They turn away way more perfect SAT scores than they admit.
No, they do not. Perfect SAT scores are rare. In 2009, only 297 out of 1.5 million test takers got a perfect 2400. That's not enough to fill the freshman class of even one university.
The kid who overcame all that crap is way more likely to use their opportunity
Kids admitted through affirmative action do not thrive at university. They are far more likely than others to struggle and leave without finishing a degree.
Quote:
Even the choice to pay the money to apply to all the ivies is not something
people who have experience would do, which is why you're not seeing any articles
about Matthew Jones-Millbury who got perfect SATs, was captain of the rowing
team, started a non-profit and spent four years boarding at Phillips Academy and
got into all eight ivies. His parents, his counsellor and he knew to only apply
to a couple, plus a couple of less prestigious places and a safety.
I highly doubt that those families had their kids apply to all the Ivy League schools out of naivete. More likely they just sought the prestige of having a kid accepted to all the ivies because that kind of thing matters more in their cultures than it does in America.
"Diversity" is valued above all else in elite college admissions. There's a hierarchy in the types of students that are desired. At the top are native-born non-Asian minorities (NAMs), but there are so few of them who meet the minimum standards that many slots are offered to foreign NAMs as diversity substitutes. At the bottom are Asians. The Ivies have a cap on slots for them similar to the long ago cap on Jews. That tight grouping of all the Ivies since 2003 screams conspiracy doesn't it?
Contrast this graph against the demographics of Stuyvesant HS and Bronx Science HS, two of the best public schools in NYC (and probably in the nation historically) and whose admission is determined solely on the basis of common entrance exam (i.e., no consideration given to diversity, race, economic class whatsoever). Stuyvesant has over 72% Asian students, and Bronx Science has over 63% Asian students, though Asians comprise 14% of the NYC population.
Now the mayor and school chancellor want to increase black and Latino enrollment at these schools, presumably at the cost to Asian, white and Jewish students. It's ultimately up to the state legislature to vote on it.
I see both sides of the argument and have mixed feelings.
Mick
P.S. Trivia: The 1990's sitcom Head of the Class (with Howard Hesseman and Robin Givens) was based on Stuyvesant, and Bronx Science was mentioned repeatedly as the rival school.
These places are swamped with over qualified applicants. They turn away way more perfect SAT scores than they admit. Admissions people fully admit that provided you have the scores and the extracurriculars whether you get admitted or not is fully dependant on who reads your application and how they felt that day. So can you blame them for looking for kids who have the qualifications, but also that something more? The odds of a middle class kid with involved university educated parents going to a well-rated high school doing badly on their SATs, not having enough extracurriculars or messing up their essay is minimal compared to a kid whose non-English speaking parents never went to high school, each work two jobs and think that the kid should be working, not studying. The kid who overcame all that crap is way more likely to use their opportunity than a kid who did well because they had no choice in the matter.
Like it or not, and regardless of skin colour, my kids have a significant advantage in life because we're highly educated. There's a college admissions documentary on youtube where one of the kids didn't get accepted to college because he didn't finish his application and had no idea. Apparently one of the problems with first generation college kids is knowing you have to do things before the first day of class. From a position of priviledge you can't even understand what they don't know.
Even the choice to pay the money to apply to all the ivies is not something people who have experience would do, which is why you're not seeing any articles about Matthew Jones-Millbury who got perfect SATs, was captain of the rowing team, started a non-profit and spent four years boarding at Phillips Academy and got into all eight ivies. His parents, his counsellor and he knew to only apply to a couple, plus a couple of less prestigious places and a safety.
Good post. I agree that first-generation kids have no idea about the application process and what to expect from college and graduate school. Quite often no one in their family is capable of providing meaningful advice. So simple stuff to the rest of us is a shock and surprise.
We know how much SAT review courses like Princeton Review and Kaplan can increase your scores by 3 digits in many cases. Some of these kids don't even realize that those courses exist and, even if they did, the parents don't have the money to send them - I don't know how much they cost now, but even 20-30 years ago, it was between $1,000 and $2,000 IIRC. Divide that by the minimum wage.
Contrary to popular belief, no college is (or should be) looking to admit only the students with the highest GPAs and test scores. Like all institutions, they are looking out for their own needs, not the needs of prospective students.
Because Harvard has a sports program, it needs athletes. Most of these athletes will get accepted even though there are others with higher GPAs and test scores. Now don't get me wrong, they are not admitting an athlete with a 2.8 GPA and a 1600 SAT, but they are admitting a lower ranked student nonetheless.
Colleges are looking for diversity, because a diverse student body fosters different viewpoints and creativity. In a globalizing world, these perspectives are increasingly important.
The accomplishment shows the ability to stick through a complicated application process and the willingness to spend a lot of money on the fees.
I understand about applying for 2 or 3 different schools in case one doesn't accept them, but to apply to college at more than 8 different schools seems to be the height of indecisiveness.
The accomplishment shows the ability to stick through a complicated application process and the willingness to spend a lot of money on the fees.
I understand about applying for 2 or 3 different schools in case one doesn't accept them, but to apply to college at more than 8 different schools seems to be the height of indecisiveness.
How does this work nowadays? Isn't there a common application for a good bulk of school? I am sure it is much different from when I applied.
If you have enough time and money, why wouldn't you apply to all 8? Maybe one might value something that other ones don't (e.g., Princeton might love a model and actress named Brooke). You never know. Getting into an Ivy could (potentially) change your life for the better, so I'd say you should apply to all of them. Don't people send like thousands of resumes for a job?
The only part I dislike is the massive application send off to several of these fine institutions. I'd assume in their minds that there was some pecking order of schools they would narrow down once they got accepted into all 8 institutions. This of course takes away spots from other worthy students who might have gotten in as well on their own merits, but are now put on a long waiting list until some student opts for Brown over Princeton.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
