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I don't feel "entitled" to anything regarding FF. I don't own any franchises.
That still doesn't mean there aren't lots of fast food workers who work full-time. There definitely are. Doesn't matter what you assume about it. Everyone deserves a living wage. Besides, we are forgetting that the recession and the following job market has pushed a lot of experienced and degreed, formally white-collar people into service jobs. Many of those fast-food workers you think don't deserve higher wages have bachelors and masters degrees. Many of us at my food job had degrees or lots of corporate experience but could not find jobs in our fields.
The "left"? oh please that always seems to precede a fallacious argument. How about this? If you are going to be an entrepreneur you need to have a good business model? If you don't then it's not the fault of the left or the right, you are either unlucky or you just aren't cut out to manage a business.
2sleepy, I know we have had this debate before in the past.
But, the problem is that all of the businesses existing today didn't factor in a massive minimum wage increase into their business model.
It would be like (or perhaps worse) telling a min wage worker , I know that you are paying rent of $1000 a month now..but you are soon going to have to pay $1500 in rent...and if you move to another part of the city..
You are still going to have to pay $1500 everywhere else.
Do you a lot of those people will be motivated to move out of that city?
They will think ....wow $1500 is a crazy rent..I'm going to have to move to the next city ..or state so I can live somewhere I can afford.
Many small business owners will be motivated to move their business to a place they can afford, where they can make a decent living...because their profit margins will shrink.
That still doesn't mean there aren't lots of fast food workers who work full-time. There definitely are. Doesn't matter what you assume about it. Everyone deserves a living wage. Besides, we are forgetting that the recession and the following job market has pushed a lot of experienced and degreed, formally white-collar people into service jobs. Many of those fast-food workers you think don't deserve higher wages have bachelors and masters degrees. Many of us at my food job had degrees or lots of corporate experience but could not find jobs in our fields.
Are you saying the BLS reports are wrong and you are right ?
I am not assuming anything here. I read the BLS reports. Where do you get your facts from ?
It might do you well to read the BLS report on the demographic of the min wage worker. It would clear up a lot of misconceptions you have.
2sleepy, I know we have had this debate before in the past.
But, the problem is that all of the businesses existing today didn't factor in a massive minimum wage increase into their business model.
It would be like (or perhaps worse) telling a min wage worker , I know that you are paying rent of $1000 a month now..but you are soon going to have to pay $1500 in rent...and if you move to another part of the city..
You are still going to have to pay $1500 everywhere else.
Do you a lot of those people will be motivated to move out of that city?
They will think ....wow $1500 is a crazy rent..I'm going to have to move to the next city ..or state so I can live somewhere I can afford.
Many small business owners will be motivated to move their business to a place they can afford, where they can make a decent living...because their profit margins will shrink.
jm, there has not been a minimum wage increase in 5 years. I can't imagine any business owner believing that there would not be a minimum wage increase. And you need to factor in the actual cost of any pay raise into their cost, it's not dollar for dollar. I've posted links to this time and time again, I can do so again if you like, but generally you can assume that the cost of labor on goods or services sold is 25% but since some of those costs are fixed benefit payments and don't go up with a pay raise. The actual cost is around 18%. But even more relevant, if the minimum wage increase is nationwide, all retailers will raise their prices to cover the cost thus they do not become 'less competitive', and their profit margin remains the same:
Fast food has never had to look seriously at the productivity of one individual compared to another.
Maybe now they will take a look. The big boys have billions to do it with. And fast food isn't a bargain
anymore.
I was just in LA and KFC was not only the same price, I was served what looked seriously to me as
yesterdays cooking. A very big hamburger drive in, thought not a chain, served big greasy portions
and the quality was junk. No wonder everyone I saw under 30 was obese. For god's sake, my aunt
has a "widows apron" but MALES UNDER the age of 30?????
However, part of the game they're playing is to keep mom/pop and local entrepreneurs out of the game.
In Calgary the newer developments build their malls in such as way as the only food in town is chain food:
You going to pay the same and you're buying what we tell you to buy. They're no where near the older
areas of town, and if they are the city by-laws make sure you never open and compete with them.
We're being played, as per usual.
Last edited by thedwightguy; 08-08-2015 at 10:12 AM..
Reason: add idea, correct spelling
I don't know why people assume they work much harder than fast food workers.
Well, I have done both in my long working career. And working fast food was a lot less stressful than my white collar jobs. Some of my office jobs were more physically demanding too. So I am not assuming I worked harder in my office jobs. In some of them I did! There was always less stress working fast food and more fun as well for me. Now it's almost the same money.
Exactly. These jobs were not traditionally supposed to be careers or life long positions.
People would work in them to get some work experience and then get education and move on .
The problem is people ..some with kids..trying to live off these wages.
I don't really feel there should be a minimum wage at all.
This would actually lower unemployment.
I don't think people should be able to abuse employees or promise to pay and then not pay..but if someone ..perhaps a teenager that lives at home wants to work for a certain wage this would give them more opportunity to earn income...More people have disposable income is good for the economy.
I also think rent control is crazy too. You are forcing a private property owner to charge a certain amount.
Where I live in L.A it's a very anti landlord city. The same with San Francisco and New York.
Ironic that these cities have the HIGHEST rents in the country!
Also many wealthy people or very high income earners are actually living in rent controlled apartments in all these cities. So it doesn't necessarily always benefit just low income earners.
When politicians get involved in things they don't understand it doesn't usually turn out good.
Where does it say what a job is supposed to be? When you apply for a job at a fast food restaurant it does not say only teenagers apply that means it is a job for anyone. No min wage so employers can pay an even lower wage and we can have more people on welfare yearh that is really good work well.
Sure but this is just the nature of these businesses .
You know what's a higher profit margin business ?
A liquor / convience store .
Take a look at how many people work in those usually versus a restaraurnt...
A huge percentage of min wage workers work in fast food because that's where those jobs are ?
Do you think it would be better just to eliminate the fast food industry ?
I hear this argument a lot but all these business owners didn't sign up for a $15 wage
Their business model was on the min wage whatever it was at the time .
It would be more like if business owners rallied to cut the minimum wage instead of $9 we are going to give you $6 an hour .
Because yes, paying $15 an hour comes out of their pocket .
If you take away any incentive for them to own a business they'll just move elsewhere or invest their money in the stock market or something else where they don't have to deal with employees .
That's an obvious and likely risk that the pro $15 hr people are too arrogant to see.
Are min wage workers going to open their own fast food places when they close?
Are the politicians going to put up money so they can open their own shops ?
Nobody from the pro $15 party seems to have done research to see how slim the profit margins are on these businesses .
I'm not talking about individual businesses but just the entire industry .
If fast food jobs can not pay enough for its employers to live in yeah it would be better to elimate them and create businesses that can pay their employes enough to live on. Min wage has not gone up for a while so buisness owners have had plenty of time to get ready for a raise which should have been happening anyway. Not sure why people are so intent on defending poorly run businesses so that businesses can pay slave wages. Yes wages come out of their pockets you know where it goes? It goes to the employees pockets who will spend a good amount of it giving it back to businesses.
It's a sad world when the lazy can go protest and whine against the government and the government gives in.
In many places, fast food workers are now making more than crane operators and medical technicians.
While I don't agree that they should make more then skilled workers if more people protested against the government, we wouldn't be in the state we are now.
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