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no, she is trying to point out that suicides and accidental gun deaths are relevant to the discussion, you just don't like it cause it wrecks your figures.
Is suicide a criminal offense? How do they prosecute the victim?
Accidental gun deaths are in the same league as manslaughter by automobile accident.
Who is accidentally being killed by toothbrushes and toilet paper?
You 2nd Amendment masturbators are bat**** crazy.
Who is batsh*t crazy? How many people are accidentally killed by firearms? Compare the number to those deaths by someone who knew what they were doing. Why is "accident" even in this debate?
How do you feel about the other 26 amendments?
The point of locking away toothbrushes and toilet paper points to the absurd concept of locking away firearms and ammo. What if you want or need them "right now"?
You said it yourself, UK had only 1, yes it was horrendous for all those involved(including Andy Murray the tennis player who was at the school at the time) after this we bought in a ban in the UK on guns full stop. Have we had any school shoottings since the answer is no and yet we still have a high percentage of untreated/ treated mental illness in the UK and funding for treatment and facilities being cut. It isnt our problem if Finland have this issue as weare a separate country same as Canada and the US!
You just proved my point.
Guess what. Sandy Hook was terrible but Connecticut "had only 1, yes it was horrendous for all those involved", using your own words.
US is 5 times the size of UK. And there are states within the US which have high rates of gun ownership yet had no school shootings in the past 20 years.
The posters who say "US has a problem yet Europe doesn't" look at the entire United States yet consistently fail to look at "Europe" as a whole, an area comparable in size and population to the US. When you do that, you'd see that Europe has many school shootings with some just as terrible and bloody as the ones in the US.
Moreover, if you look at the list of US school shootings, you'd see that many are inner city gang related. Which won't be solved by any gun laws because all of these guns were obtained illegally on the street corner. When you discount these shootings which are basically gang violence spilling into school yards - and I will be first to agree that US has a major, unique ghetto crime problem - and look just at random crazies shooting up the schools, the stats for US and Europe get very close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montygirl
YEurope govern some of the legistlation for the whole of Europe including the UK but they have their own elected parliaments that decide for some issues what they wish to pass. Same way as the UK gives benefits to foreign migrants where other countries like France do not or the amount is different so you cant say we can legislate for Finland! You are comparing states with countries that is completely dfferent. Same way as UK legislation applies to all in the United Kingdom and individual counties (or states as you call them) although have local government do not have different laws. Hence why everyone in the UK can drink at 18 not just certain areas and you can buy alcohol in every grocery store including hard liquor. Unlike the US and where I live in Utah you cannot buy anything other than weak beer at a grocery store. The same applies with drivers licenses. I have a UK licence that covers me to drive in all of Europe,England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. I do not have to change or do another test each time I move to a different area in the UK or re-register my car or change the plates unless I move to anywhere out of the UK. That's like saying why does the US have more crime than Canada? all countries are different, hell we even have a different currency to those in Europe the £ not the Euro so you are barking up the wrong tree there. Europe is a region not a country. They all make there own laws independently.Hence why you cant own a gun in the UK but in France you can! We chose as a country to reject the Euro and I am mighty pleased we did. One currency doesn't fit all and we have completely different interest rates, languages and cultures so your argument is unfortunately not possible to lump all our crimes together as we all have different gun laws and none of the UK legislation by and large is affected by religion unlike the US. Lobbyists via money and power also have far less impact in the UK than the US hence how Maggie Thatcher in the 80's defeated the unions in the miners strike of the 80's. The only thing you are right on is that we make up the total of the US population size possibly and that my friend is where the similarities end. You are more likely now I bet in the UK to die of poverty or a car accident than any gun crime. The same cannot be said for the US. You had 9 people murdered in one hit at a church by someone who should never have had a gun , same with another recent shooting and that person had a license when they should not have as they had a history albeit a while ago.
Monty,
There are states in the US which are as safe or safer than any place in the UK.
Again, I didn't try to say that UK has a school shooting problem. I was merely stating that when you compare comparable things - that is, the EU vs US - the level of school shootings seems to be comparable between the two. Even though EU has far stricter gun laws. So more restrictive gun laws are not the solution.
And if you only look at per-country basis, than Finland actually looks far worse than the US. And Germany also seems to have a few problems.
So, should Finland emulate US gun laws then ?
(I spent a few weeks in Finland many years ago, and I felt extremely safe there - but they do have a lot of school shootings for such a tiny country).
Last edited by Ummagumma; 07-26-2015 at 06:34 PM..
Kids don't want to shoot in the UK by and large. That culture is alien to them a bit like most with hunting. If you want to shoot guns or deal with them you either join the police, terrorism squad or one of the armed forces where you get the required training anyway. Most kids would be horrified to even encounter a gun during their lifetime and find it disturbing.
Not true. They enjoy shooting airguns immensely and join clubs to do just that. They enjoy airguns so much because they can't easily get firearms.
Plus, some of the most well known and best airgun makers are in England.
Sometimes understanding what is really going on is helpful, especially when pointing to people in another country as examples of behavior.
On what basis do you claim that kids in the UK would be horrified to even encounter a gun during their lifetime? Just where do the soldiers in the British military come from, Los Angeles? Typical baseless statement looking for believers.
You don't know what you're talking about. Learn something, go to the last link and find out before you make statements that aren't true.
Plus, some of the most well known and best airgun makers are in England.
Sometimes understanding what is really going on is helpful, especially when pointed to people in another country as examples of behavior.
On what basis do you claim that kids in the UK would be horrified to even encounter a gun during their lifetime? Just where do the soldiers in the British military come from, Los Angeles? Typical baseless statement looking for believers.
I meant that to see one on the streets as a norm not in a gun club , cadets etc. They want to serve their country, that is not all about guns its about serving your country and patriotism and getting sometimes for some a level of stability and a good career. Again I agree with you that some kids may have that desire but it is in a controlled environment and they don't then take that firearm onto the street. They accept that.
I meant that to see one on the streets as a norm not in a gun club , cadets etc. They want to serve their country, that is not all about guns its about serving your country and patriotism and getting sometimes for some a level of stability and a good career. Again I agree with you that some kids may have that desire but it is in a controlled environment and they don't then take that firearm onto the street. They accept that.
They have gun clubs and shooting guns as an organized sport. Don't dance around what you said. You said "most" would be "horrified" to see a gun. Now you want to qualify your statement and create a specific condition to suit your argument.
It doesn't work that way.
At least go and find out before using others to further your baseless interpretation of what you want to believe. This is how so many untrue things get passed off as true. It is wrong to do.
One more thing, only some kids grow up to use firearms to do bad thing.
Only some, not most, not even close to being most. You know that to be true too but try to hide that behind qualifiers.
You are getting creative with 2nd ammenment yourself, it doesnt mention household guns, it mention arms in the context of the "well organized militia". Since militia became national guard, and state (feds) run the operations, it would be common sense to conclude that you have no right to have a gun, unless you plan to join an organized militia. But courts are never about common sense. Besides look at definitions:In international arms control, small arms include revolvers and pistols, rifles and carbines, assault rifles, submachine guns and light machine guns. Together with light weapons (heavy machine guns; hand-held grenade launchers; portable anti-aircraft and anti-tank guns; recoilless rifles; portable launchers of anti-aircraft and anti-tank missile systems; and mortars of calibres of less than 100 mm), they comprise the Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) protocol.[1
As a wanna be militia men you have a constitutional right to own a grenade launcher. Yet, you wisely choose not to insist on that right. Why not? You think that as a non member of militia you would be lucky to be allowed to own a handgun? It is long overdue to vote in a new constitution.
There are so many levels of stupidity to which I must stoop to answer this post.
Creative with the 2A?
It goes like this...
Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What you fail to recognize is the amendment reads, in plain text....right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Militia and the people are two separate entities and the 3 commas discern as much. Militia, National Guard and the federal government have nothing to do with the 2A and none need join a militia. The people is the last defender of freedom and as such is the intended militia in the amendment.
International arms control does not apply to American citizens. Take your progressive liberal UN crap and peddle it elsewhere.
I think you and most in this country have a misconception of what the Constitution is. The document is about the people. It limits powers of government while empowering the people.
If you don't believe it tell us all what this means...
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
Lucky to be allowed? It is an inalienable right just like you beating on your keyboard.
As to your last sentence. Think about how preposterous your thoughts are. Why don't you move along to your imaginary Utopia? The United States is here to stay and apparently not your cup-o-tea.
Whew, last level of stupidity.
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