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Ridiculous. If Russia doesn't want its planes shot down, it shouldn't constantly fly in Turkish airspace. Turkey gave countless warnings to Russia to stop invading Turkish airspace. Today Russia paid a price for its aggression.
Russia owes Turkey an apology, and should leave Syria. It will never happen, though, not with the barbaric Putin in charge.
What does constantly mean to you? Constantly means all the time.
Even with a very foggy interpretation, Russia was not constantly flying into Turkish airspace unless to you constantly means twice or thrice before.
I was being sarcastic, obviously. The flight paths are obviously correct, and Putin is lying, as usual. The Russian jet was warned 10 times, and twice flew over Turkish cities (which Russia has been doing non-stop).
Russia has even admitted flying over Turkey in the past few weeks; they just say they "made a mistake" when they got caught (repeatedly). Turkey even shot down a Russian drone deep in Turkish territory, and this was just two weeks ago.
Why would Turkey shoot down fighter jets in other countries? It makes no sense. It's completely absurd. Putin just got caught with his pants down, and will now have to moderate his aggressive actions.
For example, because Russia bombed ISIS's trucks, which carry oil to Turkey.
You realize that Turkey is much more democratic, anti-authoritarian and secular than Russia, right? It's far from perfect, but it's about the most moderate country in that part of the world.
The U.S. has good relations with China but Russia does not want to be part of the international community. You cannot have good relations with an unwilling partner.
You write stupidity as always. Russia is part of the international communit.
Clumsy Turks, sorry I cant see their justification here. Had this foolish incident not happened it was looking like there was at least going to be some kind of coordination between the Western powers fighting ISIS and Russia fighting ISIS. Turkey is a NATO ally so we must stand behind them (to an extent). I hope this is not allowed to drag other powers into this defecation storm, let the Turks deal with the PO'ed Russians since they got themselves into this. If Turkey was so interested in shooting at things they could join the civilized world in shooting at ISIS targets. That would be useful, rather than this dangerous game they have started.
Wrong. The role of Turkey in supporting the terrorist groups has been well-documented. Their role in facilitiating the supply of weapons and terrorist militants was exposed in the Benghazi incident. The ambassador from Turkey was meeting with amb. Stevens on the very morning of the attack. This has all been covered many times. The Sy Hersh article in the New Yorker also exposed Turkey's role in the supply of Sarin gas to the rebels.
The Syrian government still controls much of the heavily populated Western part of the country. Much of the area in the East is desert and rural farmland. That has been vacated due in large part to the ethnic cleansing campaign by the CIA-backed rebels.
The Turkmen militias are coming from Turkey. They've been involved in clashes with the Kurds. Turkey is supporting the Turkmen militias as a proxy force to fight both the Assad government and the YPG.
You don't know what your're talking about. You're lying about ISIS working with Assad. The battle lines in Syria are quite clear. Ahrar Al-Sham, Nusra Front, FSA, ISIS, and others have territory where there are clear battles taking places against Syrian government forces. There are no battles between the rebel forces. There is movement of soldiers between the rebel groups, even movement of captives, such as the victims of the beheading videos.
You're mentally ill. Go back to your hole. You have a wish for an outcome of this proxy war by a coalition of criminal governments. Just saying it is so doesn't make it a fact.
Thank you for trying to clarify that for the confused poster. I was going to until I saw your accurate post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
No doubt the Russian plane violated Turkish airspace, to the extent it was worth shooting down is up to debate of course. Looking at the map and the history of that specific border; I do not believe there is any way "ten warnings" could have been made, and the longest the Russian plane could have been in Turkish airspace is what, 20 seconds? Plus the plane was shot down over Syria, everyone is acting like the plane was way deep in Turkish territory. Regards to the border, very unclear info, but seems this border area is not internationally recognized, taken by Turkey from Syria in 2005, but this is unclear, anyone have better info? I not have time to look too into it right now. But point is maps and pilot trajectories may not take this into account.
Turkeys letter to the UN detailing this account claims that
Quote:
“Disregarding these warnings, both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds from 9:24:05 local time."
But the math doesn't work. 1.15 miles in 17 seconds is 243 mph roughly which would be incredibly slow for a SU-24. The plane was likely travelling at least double if not triple that speed. So it was more like 5-8 seconds. Thats awful quick to make such a huge decision. More like this was planned and they already had orders in place and were waiting for the opportunity to execute them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
Also, like it or not - Turkey is not independent enough from its main ally to make a decision of such political gravity on its own. You bet US had say in this. Turkey has so much issues of its own right now on each boarder and internally and had NONE with Russia. Until today.
This was clearly planned and coordinated. Obamas statement backs that up when he basically stated that if Russia was more careful in picking their targets then these kinds of mistakes wouldn't happen. The Russians have been hitting Turkish backed militias who are fighting Assad.
You write stupidity as always. Russia is part of the international communit.
I've been to parts of Western Europe and have many relatives there. The people I know there have a much greater respect for Russia than they do the United States. Russian people vacation in large numbers in western Europe and are very well liked by most western Europeans. I agree very much with you, Russia has been and will continue to be a very important part of the international community.
Окb со цо)пилот ис аливе!
Пилот/цомманде
Sorry, had Cyrillic on
Plane commander is dead. Post mortem he will be awarded the Golden Star of The Hero of RF.
Co-pilot is alive and on Russian base. He will be awarded same.
Russia is moving S-400 air defence system to their base.
From now on, every bomber will be flying with fighter escort. Russia promised to shoot ANY target that appears to be a threat.
I am not sure if onboard GPS reports to the flight control or they recovered the black box, but Russian Ministry of Defence posted plotted course of SU24 and F16.
Su 24 route is in red, F16 in blue and Turkey boarder is in purple . Минобороны раÑкрыло Ñхему Ð¿Ð¾Ñ€Ð°Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¡Ñƒ-24 в Сирии - Первый по Ñрочным новоÑÑ‚Ñм — LIFE | NEWS
video on their site shows real time planes movements in airspace. Red is SU 24 green is F16.
Distance to Turkey boarder "nipple" was 1km when plane was shot and F16 according to the map was on the Syrian territory.
RMoD is adamant Su24 never crossed the boarder and AND F16 pilot never contacted SU24.
A diplomatic note of protest was handed to the ambassador of Turkey in Moscow.
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