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There was no military cooperation with Turkey. Russia and Turkey aren't allies, and Russia has constantly been invading Turkish airspace, killing Turkmen in Syria, and oppressing Tartars in Crimea.
Russia has zero leverage over Turkey, and frankly would get their asses kicked if they tried something stupid again. Putin will talk tough, but won't do anything, because he can't do anything.
Turkey and Russia do have military cooperation; do you even know what military cooperation is? Have you ever even been in the military? Countries do not have to be allies to have military cooperation, hell, they can be enemies and have military cooperation. Military cooperation has nothing to do with helping defend each other or anything, though it can if both parties wish to. Military cooperation can be as simple as counter-narcotics operations, anti-piracy operations, sea rescues, natural disaster responses, etc.
Russia has leverage over Turkey by way of energy and trade; Turkey and Russia have a lot of trade between each other with Turkey even being a popular tourist destination for Russians. Sure, not enough to dissuade Turkey, but enough to levy an economic impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
I don't make any claims, and I have nothing to "prove."
You have a long history of making false claims on this forum, you out right lie often, never supporting with any references, and playing obtuse when called out on it.
Example; you made the claim the Russian plane was in Turkey for five minutes, yet you provide no proof of this. You made this up and when called out, just simply state something ridiculous like "all western media is reporting it, I guess your Russian media is hiding it", when in fact no western media reported this, and Turkey even stated the plane was in Turkey for 17 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
Are you unable to access the internet? Are you in Russia and blocked from seeing Western media?
No one in Russia is blocked form the western media, hell, BBC is in every hotel there. I have no idea where you even think this stuff up, it is obvious you never have stepped foot in the country, yet you rattle off like you are some in-country expert on what life in Russia is like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
If you are honestly ignorant about Syria, and not one of the many paid Russian trolls on C-D, the NY Times is a good start. They are a very liberal paper, mind you, so actually less pro-Western than most Western media sources.
Of course, your definition of a Russian troll is someone who disagrees with you. Instead of debating the points, you just decide to name call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
Here's a summary of Russian actions in Syria. Russian bombing has strenghtened ISIS, as Russia has focused almost exclusively on NW Syria, which has mostly secular rebel groups and no ISIS:
Russian bombing has not strengthened the ISIS, and in that case; what in the hell has the US bombing done? There are no moderates, or the "moderates" is a gray area in which they should be bombed anyway, and are "moderate" in the sense the afghan Mujahideen was "moderate" in which the Taliban was born out of.
There are no secular rebel groups, there are declared moderates and radicals, no one is secular. The US does not even trust these "moderates", the US will not provide them with anti-air weapons; why not? I thought they were the good guys, right? I guess not good enough to provide anti-air weapons though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
Here's a news article on ISIS, focusing on women in ISIS, and including info on their alliance with Assad. Basically ISIS and Assad have carved out separate fiefdoms within Syria and are cooperating with one another:
There is nothing in that article stating the ISIS and Assad are aligned with each other. If this was even true, it would be blasted on every media outlet, not some obscure story over ISIS wives.
Turkey and Russia do have military cooperation; do you even know what military cooperation is? Have you ever even been in the military? Countries do not have to be allies to have military cooperation, hell, they can be enemies and have military cooperation. Military cooperation has nothing to do with helping defend each other or anything, though it can if both parties wish to. Military cooperation can be as simple as counter-narcotics operations, anti-piracy operations, sea rescues, natural disaster responses, etc.
Russia has leverage over Turkey by way of energy and trade; Turkey and Russia have a lot of trade between each other with Turkey even being a popular tourist destination for Russians. Sure, not enough to dissuade Turkey, but enough to levy an economic impact.
You have a long history of making false claims on this forum, you out right lie often, never supporting with any references, and playing obtuse when called out on it.
Example; you made the claim the Russian plane was in Turkey for five minutes, yet you provide no proof of this. You made this up and when called out, just simply state something ridiculous like "all western media is reporting it, I guess your Russian media is hiding it", when in fact no western media reported this, and Turkey even stated the plane was in Turkey for 17 seconds.
No one in Russia is blocked form the western media, hell, BBC is in every hotel there. I have no idea where you even think this stuff up, it is obvious you never have stepped foot in the country, yet you rattle off like you are some in-country expert on what life in Russia is like.
Of course, your definition of a Russian troll is someone who disagrees with you. Instead of debating the points, you just decide to name call.
Russian bombing has not strengthened the ISIS, and in that case; what in the hell has the US bombing done? There are no moderates, or the "moderates" is a gray area in which they should be bombed anyway, and are "moderate" in the sense the afghan Mujahideen was "moderate" in which the Taliban was born out of.
There are no secular rebel groups, there are declared moderates and radicals, no one is secular. The US does not even trust these "moderates", the US will not provide them with anti-air weapons; why not? I thought they were the good guys, right? I guess not good enough to provide anti-air weapons though.
There is nothing in that article stating the ISIS and Assad are aligned with each other. If this was even true, it would be blasted on every media outlet, not some obscure story over ISIS wives.
Well today Assad was accused of buying oil from ISIS. Before they had been accused of bombing rebels and not ISIS territory and allow ISIS to encroach on rebel territory .
The Turkish military has probably been at hot standby waiting for a Russian screw up for days if not weeks. They are just lucky it was the Russians and not some other type of plane mistaken for a Russian jet.
Obama coming out and telling Putin that they should be more careful in their target selection then these kinds of mistakes wouldn't be happening, makes it obvious that this was done with US giving the green light.
The US, Turkey and Saudi are all a little ticked that Putin has strolled in and made them all look like idiots. While the US and allies have been over there playing tiddlywinks with the sole objective of getting rid of Assad even if it means crawling in bed with ISIS. Putin on the other hand has rolled in and began exterminating all the cockroaches bothering Assad. This left the US in the unusual position of being exposed as supporting terrorists (while claiming domestically to be fighting them)
How these idiots running this country have so screwed up our foreign policy in such a short period of time to the point that its now Russia being the hero out kicking terrorist butt while we secretly arm the same terrorists is beyond me.
Nonsense, please explain why in more than a year western strikes have NOT targeted Assad's military? If we are so bent on overthrowing him why have we hit ISIS and NOT ONCE Assad's military?
So the bully is so upset because Turkey stopped letting him viotate their air space. I wouldn't care if it was a nano second, he did it and he continued to do it. He's been harassing other NATO countries since they foamed sanctions on him because of his invasion on Ukraine. Just who the heck does he think he is? A bully of the world who has people killed if they don't agree with him.
He's as bad as ISIS.
Turkey played hardball back, and Putin got a bloody nose.
Now Vladimir's cheerleaders are in a tizzy [as they furiously type away, below this poster on the wall - which they think is totally real and so cool]:
So the bully is so upset because Turkey stopped letting him viotate their air space. I wouldn't care if it was a nano second, he did it and he continued to do it. He's been harassing other NATO countries since they foamed sanctions on him because of his invasion on Ukraine. Just who the heck does he think he is? A bully of the world who has people killed if they don't agree with him.
He's as bad as ISIS.
Turkey, a muslim country, shot down a Russian plane, christian country, because Russia was killing Muslims terrorists.
Putin is no bully. How can you call him bully when he is the one fighting the terrorists that killed french people a few days ago.
This is not a NATO - Non-Nato War, this is a RELIGIOUS WAR Muslims vs non Muslims. According to ISIS, the Muslim apocalypse is taking place NOW and they must kill all non-Muslims. That is why Muslims that live in England, Australia, and other first world nations have traveled to Syria to join ISIS, these are called Jihadyst. Now more than ever Russia and NATO should work together to destroy ISIS, which stands for Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
Turkey should grow a pair and bomb ISIS. Turkey is the one protecting Muslim extremists.
Last edited by MiamiResident; 11-26-2015 at 07:45 AM..
Turkey played hardball back, and Putin got a bloody nose.
Now Vladimir's cheerleaders are in a tizzy [as they furiously type away, below this poster on the wall - which they think is totally real and so cool]:
How bout them F-15s? Would you like to engage in discourse or are you just going to stick with rhetoric?
Nobody is actually defending Putin here. Russia violating Turkeys airspace is clearly entirely inappropriate. Turkey responding with a shoot down is also entirely inappropriate. Escalation when we have a defensive alliance with one party is not good. Combat between two parties that have similar goals is foolish. This nonsense needs to end in Syria. The fastest route to do so is cooperating with Russia and Assad to crush ISIS. If that means Russia focuses on 'moderates' and we focus on ISIS why is that a bad thing? Would a Russian enforced no fly zone be preferable? We are clearly unwilling to put American lives at significant risk in this conflict. Russia providing S-300s for all Syrian airspace would all but end our involvement.
Why do we care about Assad anymore? ISIS directly threatens the security of the west and the resultant refugee crisis the sanctity of the EU. Can we say the same for Assad?
Last edited by dpm1; 11-26-2015 at 09:39 AM..
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Are you in Russia and blocked from seeing Western media?
Instead of debating the points, you just decide to name call. 
