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I identified myself as a Roman Catholic and used OUR in that context.
Then you need to understand that in the late 1800s, our beloved public school traditions included mandatory reading of the King James Bible by students in class and the recitation by students of specifically Protestant prayers. Guess why those beloved traditions went away?
YOUR faith was seen as something alien and undesirable not so very long ago.
First the big adjustment was accommodating the reality that not every American was Protestant. Then the big adjustment was accommodating the reality that Jews lived here too, not just Christians. Now the big adjustment is that a whole array of non-Christian and non-Jewish folks live here as well. Public scrolls have to adapt to this, as they adapted in the past. And they will.
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And if you are every bit as American as I am, renounce dual citizenship with any foreign country here and now.
I have no dual citizenship to renounce. Are you going to denounce your dual allegiance to Rome?
(FYI, I was raised Roman Catholic. And you may not know this, but the old "dual allegiance" lie is STILL being said about Catholics in some quarters.)
You had just shown your true colors. A biased troll.
Not that long ago, someone would accuse you of having dual loyalties and putting Pope above your country. Luckily these days are past us. Too bad you never learned from the religious persecution your own people would experience just over 50 years ago.
I stand by what I said. Your personal attack on me as a troll is indicative of an argument lost by you. Dual citizenship is divided loyalty.
The charge of anti-semitism seems to be leveled at any criticism of the Jews, and yet it's open season on Christianity. Sorry this anti-semitism stuff is getting stale.
Yeah, we're not thrilled about anti-semitism either:my aged man and Russiam ancestors found it particularly irksome, what with those pogroms and all....
Aside from which, no one complained it was antisemetic. A mom complained that her son was not able to take part in a school sanctioned trip for religious reasons and suggesting they not have field trips that exclude little 5 year olds who do not yet understand differences. Never once did she say or imply there was antisemitism involved.
Parents should be taking their kids to see Santa on their own damned time. Why is this traditional family activity now being taken over as a school activity? Is the family that dead in the U.S.?
No kidding. One of my favorite joys was taking the kids to see Santa. Seeing the expressions on their little faces was priceless. I wouldn't trade those memories for anything.
There is no dual allegiance. You are however a skillful tactician.
So there's no dual loyalty, but there is dual citizenship ? Why, just because you said so ?
Go read up on what some people are still saying about the Catholics and the Jesuit oath the new pope supposedly had to take. If you think there's no anti Catholic sentiment left in this country, you're badly mistaken. Are you sure that stirring up religious intolerance will not come back & hit you in the face ?
Its funny how the other day, the nation made a big fuss about Islam being taught in a public school. Now today a school district in California is up in arms thanks to a jewish woman who does not want her son to participate in commercial, secular Christmas activities that she views as religious which ruins it for the entire student body. I have to say as a country we are slowly going down the tubes because we prefer to be intolerant of others.
I used to have a neighbor who flip flopped between various Christian denominations. For a couple of years she was really on one about the commercialization of Christmas. She even told one of my kids Santa wasn't real, I was furious. The kids were going to sing Frosty the Snowman in the school program, so she didn't let them participate. They baked a birthday cake for Jesus and had birthday presents, which is fine. I'm just saying a lot of Christians aren't very tolerant of the secular stuff either.
I used to have a neighbor who flip flopped between various Christian denominations. For a couple of years she was really on one about the commercialization of Christmas. She even told one of my kids Santa wasn't real, I was furious. The kids were going to sing Frosty the Snowman in the school program, so she didn't let them participate. They baked a birthday cake for Jesus and had birthday presents, which is fine. I'm just saying a lot of Christians aren't very tolerant of the secular stuff either.
A lot of Christians aren't very tolerant of other Christians.
A distant relative / friend of mine has a wife from the former USSR who's Greek Orthodox. His parents flat out told her she's not a true Christian and must convert. They are Catholic but don't belong to the "mainstream" church.
This is why none of this crap belongs in a public school, especially the kindergarten. Keep your religion at home. Whatever it is.
Christmas is an international holiday. It is also a very American holiday. When we look at the establishment clause we need to see it in its historical context. Oliver Cromwell mounted a war on the Catholics in England that killed many thousands. Other religious sects were actively persecuted in England and around Europe. Our founding fathers were educated men and were painfully aware of the destructive nature of a national religion. I hardly think that this bus trip rises to those standards of persecution.
Also you always seem to forget the other side of the establishment clause "or free exercise of".
When a holiday like Christmas is so deeply ingrained in the hearts of Christians, this woman can't realize that her social crusade did far more damage than good. Social crusaders like this woman are spitting into the wind.
I don't think the fieldtrip rises to that level of persecution either. However, if we allow fieldtrips to see Santa, we then have to allow fieldtrips to see virtually anybody. Seriously think about it, do you really want that.
I stand by what I said. Your personal attack on me as a troll is indicative of an argument lost by you. Dual citizenship is divided loyalty.
You seem to imply that only a certain group of people have dual citizenship, while a large number of people in nearly every immigrant group who have US citizenship also holds passports of their "home" country. I bet you that the % of Christian Russian Americans who hold Russian passports is far higher than the % of the American Jews who hold an Israeli passport.
Can you clarify whom exactly was your accusation aimed at ? And how is it different from the charge of dual loyalty that the Catholics were accused of for centuries ? You know, "what happens if a Pope threatened to excommunicate all Catholics supporting a particular presidential candidate or a specific policy" ?
Last edited by Ummagumma; 12-25-2015 at 11:44 AM..
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:my aged man and Russiam ancestors found it particularly irksome, what with those pogroms and all....