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I have more than 50 cruises under my belt. While I have sailed the RCCL Freedom Class, I have not been a passenger on this particular ship. I have witnessed passengers do some really stupid things, including sitting on exterior railings while at sea.
This 16 year old ship ( old by cruising standards) carries 3,634 passengers. It’s based in Florida and does 7 day cruises to the Caribbean, all year.
It has likely carried more than 3 million passengers over the years. Until this girl, none have fallen out of a window.
The depth of interior ledges on cruise ships is shallow- able to support a glass, not feet. It is hardly sufficient to support a toddler not being supported by an adult. Forget about the open window. There is not enough depth to support anyone, not being propped up by someone else.
Had the window been closed, this baby would not have been able to support herself on the ledge. She would have fallen backwards onto the deck. I don’t know if grandpa placed her on the ledge or if she used a chair and climbed onto the ledge on her own while grandpa watched. Given the window was open, imagine the baby went out in a second.
No idea how or why there were initial reports of grandpa dangling the baby. Sounds like crap posted on social media.
I have more than 50 cruises under my belt. While I have sailed the RCCL Freedom Class, I have not been a passenger on this particular ship. I have witnessed passengers do some really stupid things, including sitting on exterior railings while at sea.
This 16 year old ship ( old by cruising standards) carries 3,634 passengers. It’s based in Florida and does 7 day cruises to the Caribbean, all year.
It has likely carried more than 3 million passengers over the years. Until this girl, none have fallen out of a window.
The depth of interior ledges on cruise ships is shallow- able to support a glass, not feet. It is hardly sufficient to support a toddler not being supported by an adult. Forget about the open window. There is not enough depth to support anyone, not being propped up by someone else.
Had the window been closed, this baby would not have been able to support herself on the ledge. She would have fallen backwards onto the deck. I don’t know if grandpa placed her on the ledge or if she used a chair and climbed onto the ledge on her own while grandpa watched. Given the window was open, imagine the baby went out in a second.
No idea how or why there were initial reports of grandpa dangling the baby. Sounds like crap posted on social media.
It wasn't a ledge but a narrow railing that's about 6 inches or so back from the window wall (that's concave). Those railings aren't even perfectly flat but have rounded edges. There's no way the child of that age could have sat by herself on that railing - window open or closed.
So I'm assuming that the grandfather continued to hold on to her, but didn't prevent her from reaching for what he says he thought was a closed window.
How he lost hold of her if he knew the window was open is the puzzle. The SJ PA early story was that he "slipped" or "lost his balance" which the grandfather denies. Social media turned that account into dangling the baby. Maybe the baby did just catch him by surprise.
I have more than 50 cruises under my belt. While I have sailed the RCCL Freedom Class, I have not been a passenger on this particular ship. I have witnessed passengers do some really stupid things, including sitting on exterior railings while at sea.
This 16 year old ship ( old by cruising standards) carries 3,634 passengers. It’s based in Florida and does 7 day cruises to the Caribbean, all year.
It has likely carried more than 3 million passengers over the years. Until this girl, none have fallen out of a window.
The depth of interior ledges on cruise ships is shallow- able to support a glass, not feet. It is hardly sufficient to support a toddler not being supported by an adult. Forget about the open window. There is not enough depth to support anyone, not being propped up by someone else.
Had the window been closed, this baby would not have been able to support herself on the ledge. She would have fallen backwards onto the deck. I don’t know if grandpa placed her on the ledge or if she used a chair and climbed onto the ledge on her own while grandpa watched. Given the window was open, imagine the baby went out in a second.
No idea how or why there were initial reports of grandpa dangling the baby. Sounds like crap posted on social media.
Good point.
If this was a danger situation, why is this the first time it has happened in 16 years.
If banging on glass was a pattern, it's possible the child "processed" the window as closed and lunged forward catching the grandfather by surprise. Folks carrying children pause by overlook railings all the time but they instinctively keep secure hold of their kids.
Even if using the rail to support part of her weight, I still can't quite conceive how he didn't hold on tight with an open window. But this accident happened *somehow* with it not the deliberate dangling of the child and a slip as first portrayed by local spokespeople. It will be a tragedy that will never end for that family, with the child denied a chance at a full life.
Other poster comments that those not used to being around small children do not always have sound judgment about what can happen ring true. Speaking of myself, pre-kid I nearly managed to get my nephew killed one day. While anxiously watching the older children walking on a ledge (my SIL was fine with it to my surprise) the 18-month old almost made it to traffic. I simply had no idea how fast but at the same time unpredictable a child of that age could be. The last time I'd been around him he'd moved like a turtle. This gap in time and experience may have been true for the grandfather with the family now coming together for the cruise.
Later once a parent, there was a lot of conflict with a family friend (male) who had absolutely no situational awareness when it came to my daughter. (Twice, not once but TWICE he almost raised her into one of our high-speed ceiling fans at home stopping only when I shrieked.) That paired with a desire to expose her to "challenges" while at the same time ignoring the need for her to be taught to use objects as they were intended - not as climbing gyms - became more than problematic leading to my restricting access for a number of years. He meant well, but simply could not be trusted to care for her - and he did not listen thinking he knew better.
EDITED TO ADD: Somewhere I saw a list of the family members. I'm not sure there were any other children, just adult siblings etc??? This little girl may have been a first grandchild with it many years since the grandfather (and grandmother since she may have been present?) had been around a child that young.
I think she had older brothers -- the hockey players.
The room was fine. Who doesn't look to see if a window is open 4 feet off the ground over a 70 foot drop? It's no different than a retaining wall without a roof. Dude is just passing blame but I can't imagine how he feels right now. Prayers to all.
Yes, this has been covered on TV, the paper and on other sites. I agree with you. Don't put the blame on someone else. I am not blaming anyone but I am a bit miffed that the parents hired a lawyer right away. Yes, prayers to everyone. I am sure grandpa, will never get over this tragedy, now will the rest of the family.
At one point I wondered if the grandfather was holding the toddler's hand while allowing her to walk along the rail, similar to how you'd walk along a balance beam. If that was what happened I could imagine coming upon the open window by surprise and the baby becoming disoriented and losing her footing.
But there is no way that is the case here. As someone else said, the rail is not flat, but curved; also, an 18-month old child is unlikely to possess the agility or balance to walk along a rail like this even if someone was holding her hand.
I also think he knew the window was open. It's too much of a coincidence that he chose the one spot with an open window. Besides, how can you not know a window is open when you're right in front of or next to it?
He clearly didn't mean harm. It's unfortunate he can't admit to making a mistake, regardless of how it happened.
It's called self-preservation, I believe. Also denial. It is the only way he can continue on living. If he admitted to killing his granddaughter, even if it was by accident, or unintentionally, it would make him lose his mind..............
The only story that makes sense is the original story (the one before the lawyer got involved), and that is that he held her out of the window and she slipped out of his hands. The he put her on the railing theory (regardless if window is open or closed) doesn't make sense because the railing wasn't flat as noted above.
THAT (the above) is what people should take away from this tragedy.
A very long time ago when I was a girl, my family was with a couple of my parents' friends who had ab infant -- probably less than four months old, if memory serves. We all went to the Redondo Beach, CA pier, and the very young dad held the baby OVER the water which was probably at least ten feet deep, minimum. My mom had a fit -- read the guy the riot act. He shrugged it off by saying he had a firm grip, and nothing bad happened, but really -- why would anyone take a risk like that?!
But, yes, I do agree with everyone who said that the grandfather will live with the guilt and the baby's family will live with the effects of that tragedy for the rest of their lives.
A lot of men, sometimes women, will walk around with young children on their shoulders. I've never thought that was safe. If the child falls and hits the floor the wrong way then it can cause serious injuries.
It's called self-preservation, I believe. Also denial. It is the only way he can continue on living. If he admitted to killing his granddaughter, even if it was by accident, or unintentionally, it would make him lose his mind..............
Early stories mentioned investigators determining whether or not to file charges. I imagine part of why the family/attorney is speaking out is an attempt to influence that decision.
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