House We're Buying Has Old A/C, What Should We Do? (Howe: to rent, buying a home)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by skids929

Is it a law in Texas that once all these things are uncovered they have to disclose the problems to future buyers?

That is my understanding.

So that seller is or should be on notice now.


ETA - I think the seller is now on the hook to disclose that the heater is faulty and dangerous. He likely isn't obligated to mention the crapped out water heater and AC as apparently they still function.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by skids929

Is it a law in Texas that once all these things are uncovered they have to disclose the problems to future buyers?

That's why I forwarded a copy of my inspection to my sellers. I didn't like them.

[Squirl]

Originally Posted by skids929

Is it a law in Texas that once all these things are uncovered they have to disclose the problems to future buyers?

One just can't assume that issues discovered during inspections that caused those under contract to back out will ever be disclosed. There is always the realtor who doesn't want to see the inspection report, and shields sellers from actual review of that report. The concession discussions revolve around needed repairs but the actual report is not provided to the seller. So the house goes back on the market with the initial disclosure intact; no modifications at all made even though the sellers were made aware of issues following the inspection done (on behalf of a potential buyer -- not their report!) while the house was in the option period. I guess if a seller was called on this problem, it would be "Opps!, the realtor had all initial the listing documents and that what was made available." Often the listing agent includes the property condition disclosure on the MLS media section and never updates or modifies that information as a matter of SOP's. A smart buyer will do some investigation as to why a former contract fell through. A smart seller will reduce the price or remedy the issues. But often, in my experience, a contract that fell thru because of property conditions is glossed over and specific reasons are not discoverable.

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by Squirl

One just can't assume that issues discovered during inspections that caused those under contract to back out will ever be disclosed. There is always the realtor who doesn't want to see the inspection report, and shields sellers from actual review of that report. The concession discussions revolve around needed repairs but the actual report is not provided to the seller. So the house goes back on the market with the initial disclosure intact; no modifications at all made even though the sellers were made aware of issues following the inspection done (on behalf of a potential buyer -- not their report!) while the house was in the option period. I guess if a seller was called on this problem, it would be "Opps!, the realtor had all initial the listing documents and that what was made available." Often the listing agent includes the property condition disclosure on the MLS media section and never updates or modifies that information as a matter of SOP's. A smart buyer will do some investigation as to why a former contract fell through. A smart seller will reduce the price or remedy the issues. But often, in my experience, a contract that fell thru because of property conditions is glossed over and specific reasons are not discoverable.

The Agent is charged with ensuring that the report, or any information provided to them, is properly relayed to the seller. In the eyes of the law the seller is still held liable even if an Agent does not provide them the information to properly update any disclosures as required. On the Agent's part not properly relaying the information to the seller is fraud if the inaction was used to avoid disclosure. I doubt any sane Agent would take that chance!

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by globe9

Well the A/C unit kind of got forgotten about when the expert checked out the heater. It wouldn't heat at all. My GF said he put some kind of smoke bomb type thing in the system, turned on the blower and the whole house filled with smoke. He told her that would be Carbon Monoxide if the heater were actually working. The fact that the whole unit was off, no pilot light, etc, he said, tells him that the owners knew about this issue and just didn't disclose it. Again, not a deal breaker, but we are definitely asking for that to be repaired or replaced. The price of the home btw is in the high end of comps per sq ft. We aren't paying $10k less below market value or anything like that, so I feel that the owner needs to address this. Carbon monoxide poisoning is serious and can be deadly.
We submitted our amendment yesterday evening. Waiting to hear back from owner now.

What the HVAC Tech did was perform a basic check of the heat exchanger in a gas heater. In any unit, even a new one, heat exchangers can be defective or fail. If openings are created in the heat exchanger then the byproducts of the gas combustion process (CO) can leak out and enter the home.

The cost of replacing a heat exchanger is substantial. With the issues found, and the age of the unit, you would be best advised to consider a full replacement of the system. It would not be surprising that other issues occur soon as well. On the AC side something as seemingly simple as a compressor failure can be very expensive to repair. Did the HVAC Tech open the evaporative cooler coil case to inspect its condition also? This is the cooler coil cabinet attached to the air handler/heater cabinet. Often times in units this age they also are experiencing advanced deterioration unless properly maintained which they rarely are maintained properly. That can be another high dollar repair there by itself.

[LynnKK]

Does the AC work? Did your inspector get it to work or if it is cold...will there be something to insure that it does work? My daughter purchased her home over 8 years ago and the oldest appliance was the a/c. Probably from the '80's, but it worked in August when she bought it and it worked this past August 8 years later. In fact, it works well, her house is always comfortable and it doesn't seem to make her elec bill rise like my big smoking new one. Calm down.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by LynnKK

Does the AC work? Did your inspector get it to work or if it is cold...will there be something to insure that it does work? My daughter purchased her home over 8 years ago and the oldest appliance was the a/c. Probably from the '80's, but it worked in August when she bought it and it worked this past August 8 years later. In fact, it works well, her house is always comfortable and it doesn't seem to make her elec bill rise like my big smoking new one. Calm down.

An anecdotal fact regarding one old AC unit that works well does not change the odds. A 20yo AC unit in Texas is relatively inefficient and undoubtedly soon to fail. See if you can figure out the SEER rating on that ancient unit and report back.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by JanND

Thought your offer was already accepted? So, you want to renegotiate your already accepted offer on a house w/ an excellent inspection because of equipment that may eventually give out. If I were the seller, I'd be thinking you were nitpicking and move on to another buyer. Just my opinion.

I was on the selling side in Houston and had disclosed age of equipment to buyer. After we were undercontract and his inspector "confirmed" what I had disclosed age wise, he asked me to lower the price.... we moved on and sold it quickly disclosing the nit picky inspection results and things I fixed. His wife was upset with him for losing the house but life is too short to deal with buyers who want 2 discounts for the same item. In pre contract negotions I countered his offer and in effect lowered my price for the age of items and part of the negotiation. But when he asked me to lower the contract price due to nothing new.....I lost confidence in his reasonableness as a buyer. I offered him a sum to fix the small new items his inspector turned up so he could repair them himself with funds I provided (along with a contractors estimate for each item.)

This transaction was in 2010 when sellers had more leverage than now. You can always ask I suppose but consider how it looks from the sellers point of view and be prepared to be turned down.

Your milage may vary

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by EDS_

An anecdotal fact regarding one old AC unit that works well does not change the odds. A 20yo AC unit in Texas is relatively inefficient and undoubtedly soon to fail. See if you can figure out the SEER rating on that ancient unit and report back.

Relatively inefficient, yes...undoubtedly soon to fail, not necessarily. It depends on the unit, how well it has been maintained, and luck. And even if it does break down, it's not necessarily a guarantee that parts can't be had for it. Some people have AC units much older than that humming along quite nicely, and others find themselves replacing them after only 5 years. There are a lot of factors to consider.

Sounds like there are big issues with the furnace on the other hand...yikes...

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by escanlan

The Agent is charged with ensuring that the report, or any information provided to them, is properly relayed to the seller.

Many Buyers who knowing they are terminating a contract due to repairs will not provide a copy to the seller or their agent. I've had several buyers who after dropping $400-500 on Inspection will offer to split the cost of the report with the seller if he wants to see what is wrong with the house. If he's walking on the house, no reason needs to be given and if the seller wants the information he might have to pay for it.

But if a Sellers Agent has the report, it's the same thing as the seller having the report. We don't always get a copy of the inspection.