Why house hunting in DFW is so difficult (Dallas, San Antonio: fit in, 2014)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by ImpartialBias

I'm not talking about just new builds. The key word in YOUR post is that you are referring to the DFW metroplex as a whole... which includes areas of south Dallas, Lancaster, areas like Mesquite, etc... which have lower income families and housing.

THIS forum primarily talks about Plano, Richardson, Frisco, Allen, and more and more about the northern suburbs where all the jobs are that people are moving to.

Sure, you CAN find a home in all of DFW (that's not rocket science) but for the purposes of this forum (and the question being asked why house hunting is so difficult) my post and answer is spot on.

Realtor.com shows the median listing price of McKinney, is currently $364k. Plano's median listing price is $394k. Frisco? $496k. Allen? $489k.

So yes, in these areas and on this forum, $300-350k is decidedly starter home territory, which just happens to coincide with the lower tier pricing of new builds going up everywhere.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence though, right?

1. Using the same info you saw on realtor.com, the median CLOSING (not list) price in McKinney is $230k, in Plano is $246k, and in Allen is $226k. Only Frisco has a median closing price near the median list price. Did you not see the closing stats? They're about one inch to the right of the list price on the mobile site...

2. I'm perfectly aware that there is major job growth in Plano, Frisco, and Richardson. But just because you work somewhere does not mean you have to buy your first home there. The Colony ($171k median sales price), Carrollton ($181k), Lewisville ($189k), and many other suburbs on the Richardson side (Sasche, Wylie, Rowlett, etc) are very affordable places for first time buyers that are are 15-30 minute commutes to the major CoCo job centers. As Acntx pointed out, many of the people buying the $350k+ homes in those hot suburbs are senior managers, directors, and VP's at those companies' HQ's. My old boss makes well over $1M a year with bonus & stock and they live in a $450k home in McKinney. Many VP's ($300-400k total comp) live in that same neighborhood. It's not all young DINKS, not even close!

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by turf3

I posted something like this elsewhere, but:


There are plenty of REAL starter houses in the Dallas area. Consider, for example, the Fox and Jacobs subdivisions from the 70s in Garland, Mesquite, etc.


It seems that today the 20 and 30somethings want to live in what their parents finally achieved in their 50s; and what their grandparents probably never lived in; and their parents did this in a world where there were still pensions and manufacturing jobs in the USA.


When my parents built (that doesn't mean "had a contractor build", that means "got out the hammers and saws, had my uncle over to help with the heavy lifting, my mom did taping and bedding, etc....") their "starter house" in the early 50s, they ended up with a 2 BR, 1BA in Kleberg (now part of Dallas, just this side of Seagoville right off Hawn Freeway), with commutes to Knox/Henderson and Lake Highlands.


When my grandmother finally retired from the city, she was thrilled to finally be able to afford a 2 BR/1 BA at about 1300 sq.ft. as opposed to an apartment. "Starter house"?

Exactly! Even though I grew up in an expensive part of Dallas, my parents first home was a 2/1
1200sf cottage. I think everything in that house was "original", nothing luxury about it other than being on pricey dirt! About the time they were 30, they traded up to a 3/2 2200sf home and had enough money to remodel the kitchen (but not the original 1940's bathrooms). By 40, they were in their "forever" home- 4/2.5/3000sf on a more "prestigious" block.

We have treated homes the same way and are currently in home #2. Home #1 was zoned to horrible public schools (which, being a single guy and then DINKs was not a big deal), but my husband put 20% down when he was single and he/we lived there for 8 years, enough time for prices to dip and recover from 2008/9 and to build up enough equity from DP/ mortgage paydown/appreciation to put down a huge chunk on what will hopefully be our "forever" home. We're almost 40 and bought this home 3 years ago- and I still have a lengthy list of remodel projects I'd like to do over time.

[Soonhun]

Just wondering, are these median prices for on the market/closing just for "starter homes?" If not, well, I would assume that start homes are disproportionately represented in the lower level of the scale.

[turf3]

"Now, it seems like 90% of first time buyers want new construction homes that are larger & more upscale than an average home (much less a typical starter home), and they insist said "starter home" be in the most desirable location with excellent public schools. "

Well, I want to buy a 3000 square foot mid-century modern house in Highland Park, that backs up to a creek, on an acre, and I want to spend less than $250,000.

I also want to be 28 years old again, have a full head of blond wavy hair, 20/20 vision, be 6 feet tall and shaped like a golf tee with rippling abs.

But it seems I'm stuck in my mid 50s with a paunch and a bald spot.

As my old band director used to say, "If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt every time he jumped."

[TheOverdog]

When my parents built (that doesn't mean "had a contractor build", that means "got out the hammers and saws, had my uncle over to help with the heavy lifting, my mom did taping and bedding, etc....")

You can't even build you own home anymore, unless you are basically a professional contractor, so it's not even worth discussing. And young people didn't make that illegal, the older generation in charge did, so don't put it on them if they don't have the same options or look at 'starter' homes the same way.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

$350k is NOT "starter home" territory, and there are plenty of homes for sale in the $250-350k range. PLENTY.

The issue is that first time buyer "wants" (which they think are "needs") has changed dramatically in the last decade or two. Buyers used to see starter homes as way to start building equity for the "move-up" or "forever" home that would be purchased 7-10 years down the road.

Now, it seems like 90% of first time buyers want new construction homes that are larger & more upscale than an average home (much less a typical starter home), and they insist said "starter home" be in the most desirable location with excellent public schools. As such, the majority of first time buyers feel they're priced out of a starter home when they're just really priced out of their ridiculous list of wants. The expectation that your first home is as nice or nicer than your parents' home is just ridiculous, yet that is the typical mindset now.

The average sales price in DFW for ALL homes is nowhere near $350k so no way is "entry level" housing starting at $350k. Sorry, just no.

I gasp every time I see my parents' first home: a crappy little 3/2 Fox & Jacobs built in the 60s. They said the foundation was tearing the house in half even in the 1970s, when they sold it and moved to Preston Hollow. Incidentally our PH house was pretty modest too...about 2200 sq ft, 4/2, small bedrooms, small bathrooms, cantankerous plumbing, leaking skylight, etc. Neither house was particularly fancy, but the PH house was cozy and comfortable.

I agree with you; I think the concept of a modest starter home is lost on a lot of people. They want the perfect HGTV palace and pitch a fit if they can't get it. They blame the market instead of their own unrealistic expectations.

That being said...

All the new real estate in my neighborhood that's been put on the market recently is priced between $170-$185 per square foot. That's putting these relatively modest homes anywhere between $275-$350k. That's C.R.A.Z.Y. My neighborhood used to be where someone could buy a starter home and fix it up. Not anymore. It's kind of scary how prices have gone up so fast.

[octo]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

You can't even build you own home anymore, unless you are basically a professional contractor, so it's not even worth discussing.

Actually you can at least in Dallas.

[turf3]

Of course you can physically build your own house. You have to get permits, inspections, etc. Far fewer people do it now than did it 60 years ago, to be sure, but that is not the main point of my post.

The point was that today's 20 and 30somethings - at least those coming from the middle and upper-middle class - are, in my opinion, grossly out of touch with the meaning of "modest" and "starter house". A 2000+ square foot house less than 10 years old in one of the best school districts in the state, is not a starter house. Sorry.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

You can't even build you own home anymore, unless you are basically a professional contractor, so it's not even worth discussing. And young people didn't make that illegal, the older generation in charge did, so don't put it on them if they don't have the same options or look at 'starter' homes the same way.

There are very few infill--open--lots in established subdivisions and any developer that starts a new subdivision has already decided on the builders he will allow to buy lots and build houses...
Especially in a subdivision that is supposed to be semi-custom vs tract homes--even those 350K and up...

IF someone really wants to build a house they will have to do some tough research locating a lot that is area that has some upside because you will be building with new comps for land/materials/labor which I would imagine are more expensive than than homes nearby. Plus if you want to build a larger home--say close ones are 1500 sq ft and you want to built 2800 then you I have almost double house size and price and will find it very hard to get your money out of that house...

The people who find this out the hard way are those who own home in established subdivision and have a fire that totals the house--so it has to be rebuilt from ground up--sometimes that even means a new foundation...
Unless they have a good insurance policy that pays them to rebuild at current costs they will lost money...

[LoveAussie]

Wow, a little bit off the topic but I was supersized by the data

Housing Market in Plano, TX
$396K
Median Listing Price

$246K
Median Closing Price

Based on all the posts in this forum I always thought it would be the opposite, the closing price would be much higher (~20%) than the listing price and buying houses in Plano would be a nightmare. It looks like Plano is still very affordable, and its location is convenient so why people want to go further North, just to buy new house?