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You really don't know the political environment of Dallas then, specifically the urban parts where Amazon would most likely build their 2nd HQ. There's not much of a difference between Dallas & Austin in that regard.
You're right, I don't know Dallas politics, but I'm not stupid either. I'm expressing an opinion, not claiming inside knowledge.
Even if you just use ballpark measures, three years ago the Economist did a survey that ranked Austin as the #14 most liberal city in the country. Dallas? #35. Ft. Worth and Arlington were even more conservative. https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap.../daily-chart-0 Also, because of its size within the metro, the city of Austin has a disproportionate impact on the political environment. The city of Dallas is about 18% of the DFW population, and the city of Austin is about 45% of the metro population.
This is a discussion of metro areas, not urban centers. As far as I can tell, "urban center" is a rough cognate for "liberal politics," but I could be wrong about that. I haven't heard about hotbeds of conservative activism in inner city areas. Maybe in Oklahoma City?
You may honestly think that Dallas and Austin or their metros are politically equivalent, or that Austin is just a wee wiggle left of Dallas. In my opinion you're not just mistaken, but way off. That's okay. We're just jawing on City-Data after all. As I said, I don't know anything meaningful about Dallas' political environment other than what I read on the internets. However, the perception that led to my comment is real. If you believe Dallas to be a liberal city, that the Dallas Business Alliance is getting ready to adopt "Keep Dallas Weird" as their slogan for small business, ooookay.
On topic, and for what it's worth, that Economist chart also represents the reason that I consider Denver and Boston the most likely locations for the HQ2 development. Boston is #5. Denver is #20. I'm starting to wonder how much time zone diversity they're going to shoot for.
Interesting thought looking at this list, however - what if Amazon decided to land in Detroit (#7) with the objective of completely rejuvenating it? That could be a kind of lasting legacy that Jeff Bezos could get into, although I wonder if Detroit could muster up the financial side of the pitch.
You're right, I don't know Dallas politics, but I'm not stupid either. I'm expressing an opinion, not claiming inside knowledge.
Even if you just use ballpark measures, three years ago the Economist did a survey that ranked Austin as the #14 most liberal city in the country. Dallas? #35. Ft. Worth and Arlington were even more conservative. https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap.../daily-chart-0 Also, because of its size within the metro, the city of Austin has a disproportionate impact on the political environment. The city of Dallas is about 18% of the DFW population, and the city of Austin is about 45% of the metro population.
This is a discussion of metro areas, not urban centers. As far as I can tell, "urban center" is a rough cognate for "liberal politics," but I could be wrong about that. I haven't heard about hotbeds of conservative activism in inner city areas. Maybe in Oklahoma City?
You may honestly think that Dallas and Austin or their metros are politically equivalent, or that Austin is just a wee wiggle left of Dallas. In my opinion you're not just mistaken, but way off. That's okay. We're just jawing on City-Data after all. As I said, I don't know anything meaningful about Dallas' political environment other than what I read on the internets. However, the perception that led to my comment is real. If you believe Dallas to be a liberal city, that the Dallas Business Alliance is getting ready to adopt "Keep Dallas Weird" as their slogan for small business, ooookay.
I said cities, not metros. It appears that Amazon wants to be in an urban center, so why would the political orientation of say Denton County (30-40 miles away from DT Dallas, but part of DFW) impact that decision? You do realize that one of the fastest growing areas of the Austin Metro is Round Rock, located in conservative Williamson County to the north. Practically every metro has red suburbs and a blue urban center. Although Dallas may be 18% of DFW (I think Dallas County is higher, but it's also blue), that's still a lot of people given the size of the city. Not everyone is even commuting into Dallas, so the political orientation of DFW as a whole is completely irrelevant. I highly doubt someone is commuting from Weatherford to DT Dallas. DFW is unique in how multi-polar it is.
Austin falls flat when it comes to public transit in comparison to Dallas. No question about it. Speaking of "weird," you do realize that Dallas does have its funky and eclectic areas? It's a large city, so that aspect may not always stand out but it's definitely there. Not sure how that relates to "liberalism." There's nothing weird about Denver or Boston, yet they're good picks and not strictly because of politics. Austin is no longer "weird." It just uses that as a marketing scam now.
I said cities, not metros. It appears that Amazon wants to be in an urban center, so why would the political orientation of say Denton County (30-40 miles away from DT Dallas, but part of DFW) impact that decision?
The Amazon bid is specifically oriented toward metros, so this is the point where either I have to ask why you are doubling down on cities, or ask why you're deliberately narrowing your perspective from the metro to the city centers in the metro.
I think it's plausible but not likely that they're going to choose Austin, but my point is that if cultural alignment is a factor (and I believe it to be), that would be a factor in Austin's favor. If you want to call my opinion ignorant because I say Dallas is less culturally aligned to a very liberal technology company than Austin would be, that's fine. But when I provide evidence to support my opinion, and you don't respond with evidence for yours, well, you start sounding like you're just talking out of your elbow.
Specifically to support my perspective, my evidence talks about cities, not metros. Where's your evidence to support your opinion that Dallas is similar to Austin politically? You wouldn't build an opinion on nothing more than your own elbow, would you?
I think the importance attached to 'culture' is overblown. Dallas has may other advantages (over Austin) and meets many of the other criteria Amazon has laid out.
At the end of the day, I think the decision will be dictated mostly by the bottom-line (incentives, tax breaks etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude
The Amazon bid is specifically oriented toward metros, so this is the point where either I have to ask why you are doubling down on cities, or ask why you're deliberately narrowing your perspective from the metro to the city centers in the metro.
I think it's plausible but not likely that they're going to choose Austin, but my point is that if cultural alignment is a factor (and I believe it to be), that would be a factor in Austin's favor. If you want to call my opinion ignorant because I say Dallas is less culturally aligned to a very liberal technology company than Austin would be, that's fine. But when I provide evidence to support my opinion, and you don't respond with evidence for yours, well, you start sounding like you're just talking out of your elbow.
Specifically to support my perspective, my evidence talks about cities, not metros. Where's your evidence to support your opinion that Dallas is similar to Austin politically? You wouldn't build an opinion on nothing more than your own elbow, would you?
You're right, I don't know Dallas politics, but I'm not stupid either. I'm expressing an opinion, not claiming inside knowledge.
Even if you just use ballpark measures, three years ago the Economist did a survey that ranked Austin as the #14 most liberal city in the country. Dallas? #35. Ft. Worth and Arlington were even more conservative. https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap.../daily-chart-0 Also, because of its size within the metro, the city of Austin has a disproportionate impact on the political environment. The city of Dallas is about 18% of the DFW population, and the city of Austin is about 45% of the metro population.
This is a discussion of metro areas, not urban centers. As far as I can tell, "urban center" is a rough cognate for "liberal politics," but I could be wrong about that. I haven't heard about hotbeds of conservative activism in inner city areas. Maybe in Oklahoma City?
You may honestly think that Dallas and Austin or their metros are politically equivalent, or that Austin is just a wee wiggle left of Dallas. In my opinion you're not just mistaken, but way off. That's okay. We're just jawing on City-Data after all. As I said, I don't know anything meaningful about Dallas' political environment other than what I read on the internets. However, the perception that led to my comment is real. If you believe Dallas to be a liberal city, that the Dallas Business Alliance is getting ready to adopt "Keep Dallas Weird" as their slogan for small business, ooookay.
On topic, and for what it's worth, that Economist chart also represents the reason that I consider Denver and Boston the most likely locations for the HQ2 development. Boston is #5. Denver is #20. I'm starting to wonder how much time zone diversity they're going to shoot for.
Interesting thought looking at this list, however - what if Amazon decided to land in Detroit (#7) with the objective of completely rejuvenating it? That could be a kind of lasting legacy that Jeff Bezos could get into, although I wonder if Detroit could muster up the financial side of the pitch.
I agree. Lived in both Dallas and Austin (and Houston). Dallas is no more liberal than Houston or SA. But Austin? Definitely a whole different demographic to be sure. It's also a bigger city relative to the size of its metro, so it holds much more sway for its region than Dallas does for DFW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTXman34
No one really knows where those letters and threats were coming from. They're probably from within DFW, but again, that's doesn't take away from the city proper's political leanings. Financial issues have become more of a major concern since MHH Bridge. The Lee Statue stood in Oak Lawn, which as you maybe know, is the epicenter of DFW's LGBT community. At the very least, Dallas & Austin are tied for the HRC's LGBT Equality ranking with a perfect score of 100. The DFW suburbs are at the bottom --
Phillip Kingston, who represents most of Dallas's urban core, said most of the complaints aren't coming from within the city or in his district:
"We're almost done with this process," said council member Philip Kingston, who led the initial push to remove the Lee statue this year. "And at this point, the people who are complaining are not from inside the city." Kingston, who called the attacks on Gates "childish" and stomach-turning, said he has heard little resistance within his district, which includes East Dallas, downtown and Uptown.
First of all, no one's saying Dallas itself isn't LGBT friendly or relatively liberal. What we're saying is that it's A) less liberal than Austin, both as a city and a metro, and B) If that is truly something that Amazon is interested in, no amount of boosterism is going to change what people on the ground already know.
Secondly, Kingston only has a small part of the central core (http://gis.dallascityhall.com/docume...strictAllE.pdf) and I would expect his district to be lighter on complaints of that nature as its likely the most liberal district in the city. I'm also not surprised that some of the other council members have gotten hate mail. Dallas (like every other Texas city not named Austin) has a large number of types of people who would not see taking this statue down as a positive thing.
I understand you're invested in painting Dallas in a positive light no matter what, but reality is what it is.
The Amazon bid is specifically oriented toward metros, so this is the point where either I have to ask why you are doubling down on cities, or ask why you're deliberately narrowing your perspective from the metro to the city centers in the metro.
I think it's plausible but not likely that they're going to choose Austin, but my point is that if cultural alignment is a factor (and I believe it to be), that would be a factor in Austin's favor. If you want to call my opinion ignorant because I say Dallas is less culturally aligned to a very liberal technology company than Austin would be, that's fine. But when I provide evidence to support my opinion, and you don't respond with evidence for yours, well, you start sounding like you're just talking out of your elbow.
Specifically to support my perspective, my evidence talks about cities, not metros. Where's your evidence to support your opinion that Dallas is similar to Austin politically? You wouldn't build an opinion on nothing more than your own elbow, would you?
Dallas (like every other Texas city not named Austin) has a large number of types of people who would not see taking this statue down as a positive thing.
You come talk to me when Austin's 6th St. keeps businesses opened when the Texas Relays are in town. Or when their AA population starts to increase.
I'm not denying racial issues in DFW, but to paint Austin as some sort of racial utopia. . If any city is racially progressive in Texas, it's Houston not Austin. Maybe Amazon should consider there instead.
I believe it to be. I could be wrong, but like Apple under Steve Jobs and Tim Cook, their corporate culture is definitely a reflection of their executives. Jeff Bezos is a very high-profile Democratic donor. I'm not saying that in a pejorative way, just calling it the way I see it.
On the other hand, I agree that it's challenging to label a company that way. It's very true that when I think about "conservative" corporations, I think about industries like petroleum or energy (except alternative energy, so for example, contrast Duke Energy with SolarCity). When I think about "liberal" corporate entities, I think about tech and non-profits. When I think about the middle ground, I think about any number of big enterprise entities such as IBM, Target, GE, and the like.
In a contest for a corporate headquarters, no values-and-culture-based company in their right mind would choose a HQ location where they'd be primarily hiring people who wouldn't fit smoothly into that culture. It's not always about workers. In the information age, to a large extent, it's about workers who share the values and vision of the company.
In a contest for a corporate headquarters, no values-and-culture-based company in their right mind would choose a HQ location where they'd be primarily hiring people who wouldn't fit smoothly into that culture. It's not always about workers. In the information age, to a large extent, it's about workers who share the values and vision of the company.
I don't disagree with that, but I don't see how Austin fits in when they don't value public transit or non-car dependent modes of transportation. I don't think any city in TX should be in the running based on that factor alone, but Dallas is the closest at least from a public transit standpoint.
I'm not denying racial issues in DFW, but to paint Austin as some sort of racial utopia. . If any city is racially progressive in Texas, it's Houston not Austin. Maybe Amazon should consider there instead.
OK so lets back up a bit. If we're talking racial relations or opportunities for minorities?
DFW >>>>>>>>>>>> Austin
Austin's AA population won't grow because there's nothing in Austin for blacks who aren't in the tech industry. I spent two years there in grad school and couldn't wait to leave. I found myself in Houston every other weekend pretty much because even though I had friends in Austin I found it to be a black cultural wasteland. As (yet another) anecdote, I had a tight group of about 10 black grad school friends there and every single one left after they graduated.
Dallas is waaaaaay better in that regard. But with respect to the techy, West Coast-style liberalism I think most are describing here (and you def might disagree) Dallas doesn't have that Seattle/Portland/SF vibe. Austin does. But I personally dont think thats as important to Amazon as some others might. We shall see.
Personally I think the importance of that type of culture to Amazon is overblown. But assuming that type of liberal vibe is important to them, Austin wins.
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. If any city is racially progressive in Texas, it's Houston not Austin. Maybe Amazon should consider there instead.
