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This is an endemic virus. It is never going away even with 100% vaccination. If you support a mask mandate now, you have to support making the mandate forever permanent. There will always be a chance of variant. As soon as a mandate would end, a variant will develop.
If you support vaccines, you have to support mandatory yearly vaccines for life for everyone. It is pointless to simply require just two vaccines.
Thats the problem. Its an endless battle and its rather pointless to keep doing all these things forever. All it does is slow it down. There is no defeating this virus.
This is bad logic. One can think we should have certain protocals in place when the virus is running rampant that we might not need in place when the virus is much more controlled and 80% of people are vaccinated.
We are never getting rid of all crime, so why have police, right?
Why are we so worried about protecting children? I get that they can't get the vaccine, but they are also an extremely low-risk group.
It's more dangerous to drive kids around in cars, yet we do that all the time. I can't quite grasp this fear of children getting COVID and maybe having a fever and a sore throat for a bit.
How would COVID be eliminated with mandates? Wouldn't all countries have to vaccinate most/all of their citizens in order to eliminate COVID?
Yes.
It's not like there isn't precedent. Think smallpox, polio, measles, and any number of other common diseases that are now rare thanks to mandatory vaccination.
Young people don't remember that up till maybe 30 years ago, children simply could not attend school without proof of vaccination against certain diseases (polio, smallpox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and measles come to mind). And you were required to send your children to school because there were truant laws. You couldn't work in restaurants without a health card. You couldn't get married without a Wassermann test.
Everyone who has been drafted in the last 80+ years has been vaccinated against a host of diseases. No one ever challenged this.
I say, make vaccination for Covid as well as the other ones I've listed above and a couple more that have been developed since, a requirement for most governmentally-controlled activities. Passport; drivers license; voting; attending any public school; entering any public building; enlisting in any branch of the military; Medicare; Social Security; welfare; VA benefits, etc. Only exceptions are health conditions that are attested by a licensed MD, and religious exemptions that are attested by an ordained minister of a church that is officially recognized.
It's time to quit coddling people who are afraid of needles. Just like we don't allow people to connect their sewer pipe to the city water supply, or walk down the street throwing clouds of anthrax spores into the air, we need to stop allowing people to spread diseases willy-nilly.
It's not like there isn't precedent. Think smallpox, polio, measles, and any number of other common diseases that are now rare thanks to mandatory vaccination.
Young people don't remember that up till maybe 30 years ago, children simply could not attend school without proof of vaccination against certain diseases (polio, smallpox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and measles come to mind). And you were required to send your children to school because there were truant laws. You couldn't work in restaurants without a health card. You couldn't get married without a wassermann test.
Everyone who has been drafted in the last 80+ years has been vaccinated against a host of diseases. No one ever challenged this.
I say, make vaccination for covid as well as the other ones i've listed above and a couple more that have been developed since, a requirement for most governmentally-controlled activities. Passport; drivers license; voting; attending any public school; entering any public building; enlisting in any branch of the military; medicare; social security; welfare; va benefits, etc. Only exceptions are health conditions that are attested by a licensed md, and religious exemptions that are attested by an ordained minister of a church that is officially recognized.
It's time to quit coddling people who are afraid of needles. Just like we don't allow people to connect their sewer pipe to the city water supply, or walk down the street throwing clouds of anthrax spores into the air, we need to stop allowing people to spread diseases willy-nilly.
This is an endemic virus. It is never going away even with 100% vaccination. If you support a mask mandate now, you have to support making the mandate forever permanent. There will always be a chance of variant. As soon as a mandate would end, a variant will develop.
If you support vaccines, you have to support mandatory yearly vaccines for life for everyone. It is pointless to simply require just two vaccines.
Thats the problem. Its an endless battle and its rather pointless to keep doing all these things forever. All it does is slow it down. There is no defeating this virus.
I support mitigating practices until EVERYONE is eligible for vaccination. 50 million children under 12 deserve our best effort at keeping them healthy and schools open.
Once vaccines are universally available in the US, I am mostly ok with the “every man for himself” strategy for *most* people. That said, there are populations who have ALWAYS had mandatory vaccines such as the military, many jobs in the medical and education fields, etc - and I support mandatory vaccinations for those groups.
We will eventually defeat this virus. It’s a coronavirus so in several decades, it will blend into the common cold family and most people will have good immunity before they hit elementary school. This is a pretty commonly held position in the infectious disease world.
Why are we so worried about protecting children? I get that they can't get the vaccine, but they are also an extremely low-risk group.
It's more dangerous to drive kids around in cars, yet we do that all the time. I can't quite grasp this fear of children getting COVID and maybe having a fever and a sore throat for a bit.
I freaking hate the car analogy. Do you protect your kids when you’re driving them around by using car seats and seat belts? Then why wouldn’t you want to protect them now by masking up and getting vaccinated until they have the chance to be vaccinated themselves.
The game changer now is Delta. The pediatric medical community is screaming that Delta is way different than original Covid for kids. Half the hospitalized kids in Florida have NO preexisting conditions. I read an article in the LA Times this week that said Delta is so contagious that 70% of a school would be infected within 3 months if no one masks and no one is vaccinated. So let’s see…about 1% of kids with Covid have been hospitalized and based on which study you read, somewhere between 4-8% struggle with long Covid for more than 6 weeks after their infection (ranging from mild exhaustion to concussion-like cognitive disabilities to inflamed organs). Also, the severity of infection does not seem to impact who gets long Covid for kids. See this week’s NYT article. Some kids have very mild cases and then weeks later major issues appear.
Roughly 50M kids under 12 means - let’s assume worst case that 30% of kids are in a school with no mask mandate and few vaccinated teachers —> by Thanksgiving, that’s 10 million kids <12 with Covid, 105,000 kids hospitalized between now and then and about 400,000-800,000 kids with long Covid. But only about 1,500 kids would actually die. Maybe 1,500 kids dying aren’t worth protecting to you, but are the 500-900k who might be hospitalized or suffer from long Covid worth protecting? Know how many kids die in car accidents each year? About 1,00-1,400. But you buckle up your kids every time, right???
Remember when we were all patriotic in March 2020 and rallied together as a country to “flatten the curve”? This is our chance to flatten the curve for the pediatric medical community.
I freaking hate the car analogy. Do you protect your kids when you’re driving them around by using car seats and seat belts? Then why wouldn’t you want to protect them now by masking up and getting vaccinated until they have the chance to be vaccinated themselves.
The game changer now is Delta. The pediatric medical community is screaming that Delta is way different than original Covid for kids. Half the hospitalized kids in Florida have NO preexisting conditions. I read an article in the LA Times this week that said Delta is so contagious that 70% of a school would be infected within 3 months if no one masks and no one is vaccinated. So let’s see…about 1% of kids with Covid have been hospitalized and based on which study you read, somewhere between 4-8% struggle with long Covid for more than 6 weeks after their infection (ranging from mild exhaustion to concussion-like cognitive disabilities to inflamed organs). Also, the severity of infection does not seem to impact who gets long Covid for kids. See this week’s NYT article. Some kids have very mild cases and then weeks later major issues appear.
Roughly 50M kids under 12 means - let’s assume 30% of kids are in a school with no mask mandate and few vaccinated teachers —> by Thanksgiving, that’s 10 million kids <12 with Covid, 105,000 kids hospitalized between now and then and about 400,000-800,000 kids with long Covid. But only about 1,500 kids would actually die. Maybe 1,500 kids dying aren’t worth protecting to you, but are the 500-900k who might be hospitalized or suffer from long Covid worth protecting? Know how many kids die in car accidents each year? About 1,00-1,400. But you buckle up your kids every time, right???
Remember when we were all patriotic in March 2020 and rallied together as a country to “flatten the curve”? This is our chance to flatten the curve for the pediatric medical community.
I don't have kids, but I wear a seatbelt and would make my hypothetical children wear seatbelts too. Do you think we should make children walk around with helmets, elbow/knee pads to protect them even further?
My belief is that your numbers are far worse than the reality and so my stance is that yes, it is worth the risk to go ahead and get on with life. I don't believe Delta is a 'game changer' at all. Also, how do we know how prevalent this Delta variant actually is? My understanding is that when someone tests positive, we aren't necessarily testing to see what strange of the virus they had, correct?
I don't have kids, but I wear a seatbelt and would make my hypothetical children wear seatbelts too. Do you think we should make children walk around with helmets, elbow/knee pads to protect them even further?
My belief is that your numbers are far worse than the reality and so my stance is that yes, it is worth the risk to go ahead and get on with life. I don't believe Delta is a 'game changer' at all. Also, how do we know how prevalent this Delta variant actually is? My understanding is that when someone tests positive, we aren't necessarily testing to see what strange of the virus they had, correct?
It’s obvious you don’t have kids. Especially young ones.
To me, mask = seatbelt right now.
What exactly do you think constitutes a “seatbelt” for you with kids when schools are about to open across the south with no masks, no distancing, no virtual options, etc for most of them? We’ve taken away every safety precaution that was in place for the 2020-2021 school year.
Yes, my #s are worst case scenario, hopefully, because we don’t have enough beds in children’s hospitals in the entire continent to take care of that volume of sick kids.
Something like 97% of the positive tests that are tested for strains are coming back as Delta. Sure not all tests are strain tested, but enough are to get a baseline change. Why be so skeptic of science? The cases are skyrocketing in the US the past few week after falling to just about 10k per day lows in June.
And anecdotally - I know about 30 who had Covid from the entire March 2020- June 2021. I now know about 50 people who’ve gotten Covid in the last 3 weeks (not all related people, some from work, some from school, some from friends, some in other cities from old jobs & college friends.) Several unvaccinated ones are on vents or still in hospital but off the vents now - formerly healthy, non-obese 40-somethings.
Why isn’t Abbott not treating this as a local control issue?
You know
I know
We all know
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