Is high housing price and inflation a big deterrent for relocation now? (Plano: house, employment)
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Who needs numbers? The lack of supply is quite obvious to those of us who have lived here a while. There are fewer for sale signs and fewer people moving out. A look at any builder's website will show less than a handful of active communities at any given time, and those are mostly sold out or on hold. As little as two or three years ago, there would be an ample selection. You can argue that is because of demand, and part of it is, but even looking at what's planned, it's slim pickings. There isn't really any suitable land left that has adequate infrastructure or proximity to anything.
I'm not sure about Fort Worth, but the Dallas and north Dallas area is largely built out. A shortage of land leads to a shortage of houses.
I just really laughed out loud at 'Who needs numbers'. When data goes against your narrative, who needs data, its all a scam anyhow. Alternative facts/reality is what we going to go off.
The reason you're seeing few postings for sale is because for same amount of houses as before (actually slightly more), the demand has went up so much that these houses are gone in 2 days sometimes. Remember the toilet paper shortage? There was no toilet paper shortage in production, its people who just bought it all up in huge numbers that caused the shortage. The demand went through the roof on an item that had same supply as previously.
Regarding what is planned, they are building and developing non-stop. Lexington II etc, Little Elm is literally a construction site. Everything gets bought up immediately. Once again, data from the federal gov says there are more new builds than pre covid.
Reality is that if you actually follow the data and agree that the reason all these homes are being bought up is due to huge demand. You will realize that at this rate sooner or later the pool of over-qualified buyers who are able to afford these expensive homes nationwide will expire.
Because the volume is so high - that pool is getting exhausted on daily basis. Its actually good news for those looking for market to stabilize. There is only so many people nationwide qualified and we're selling more homes than ever in history.
We can actually get to a point where demand will drop off dramatically and supply would increase even more.
Lastly north Dallas is nowhere close to being built out. I don't remember exact miles but considering size of DFW we have something like 20 more miles to spread north no problem. When using comparable cities like Chicago - a place where people commute to downtown daily from burbs and in DFW we do not.
In 10 years time Frisco will look like Plano used to one day.
I just really laughed out loud at 'Who needs numbers'. When data goes against your narrative, who needs data, its all a scam anyhow. Alternative facts/reality is what we going to go off.
The reason you're seeing few postings for sale is because for same amount of houses as before (actually slightly more), the demand has went up so much that these houses are gone in 2 days sometimes. Remember the toilet paper shortage? There was no toilet paper shortage in production, its people who just bought it all up in huge numbers that caused the shortage. The demand went through the roof on an item that had same supply as previously.
Regarding what is planned, they are building and developing non-stop. Lexington II etc, Little Elm is literally a construction site. Everything gets bought up immediately. Once again, data from the federal gov says there are more new builds than pre covid.
Reality is that if you actually follow the data and agree that the reason all these homes are being bought up is due to huge demand. You will realize that at this rate sooner or later the pool of over-qualified buyers who are able to afford these expensive homes nationwide will expire.
Because the volume is so high - that pool is getting exhausted on daily basis. Its actually good news for those looking for market to stabilize. There is only so many people nationwide qualified and we're selling more homes than ever in history.
We can actually get to a point where demand will drop off dramatically and supply would increase even more.
Lastly north Dallas is nowhere close to being built out. I don't remember exact miles but considering size of DFW we have something like 20 more miles to spread north no problem. When using comparable cities like Chicago - a place where people commute to downtown daily from burbs and in DFW we do not.
In 10 years time Frisco will look like Plano used to one day.
Few houses around me go on the market at all. I've kept close watch on the comps all year and last year. I've never seen so little even on my street. Nothing that has been put on the market since last June has sold within a week and little has sold within a month. I see low supply and low demand where I am. However, the supply does seem quite generous across McKinney, and many of them really do sit for months. Some neighborhoods do have more sales than others.
I just have to look at builders' websites and drive around to see how little there is. They have been controlling higher demand by limiting the number of sales per month, so the demand doesn't cause them to close much faster than usual.
Frisco will never look like Plano because it does not look like Plano did ten years ago or ever. It does not have the corporate headquarters and jobs, and it certainly doesn't have the income, price, and neighborhood diversity. It doesn't even have the same retail. It grew and established itself differently and over a much, much longer and more sustainable period of time.
That leads into the lack of land. The land that's available lacks the infrastructure and businesses to support proper housing. The growth and development patterns are not going to look the same moving forward as they used to.
How in the world can you claim low demand when nothing goes to market? You’re using ridiculously small datasets to make a broad assumption.
No, I said my subdivision had low demand which, yes, is a small dataset. My claim would be more along the lines that demand is absolutely bonkers everywhere EXCEPT my subdivision. Little in the past year has hit the market compared to what I have seen in my years here, but what I have seen does not do well and keeps the comps low. A lot of sellers don't want to make updates, and the market doesn't reward those who do.
On the supply side, I see the same thing though.
I can see city and zip code data month by month in the Community Impact paper, and I can see list prices and descriptions online and get an idea of where the broader market is compared to others. It also shows the number of sales and includes breakdowns by price range. McKinney and Frisco both have them. Other cities do too.
Frisco will never look like Plano because it does not look like Plano did ten years ago or ever. It does not have the corporate headquarters and jobs, and it certainly doesn't have the income, price, and neighborhood diversity. It doesn't even have the same retail. It grew and established itself differently and over a much, much longer and more sustainable period of time.
I'm not going to focus on other points how you made broad sweeping national market trends based on your street...
I am confused by your wording, is it Frisco or Plano that has corporate headquarters, jobs/diversity or more money?
It seems like you mean Plano does not have the corporate HQ's and retail. Which makes no sense because Legacy West and Legacy North and their subsequent expansions are ALL in Plano. So that Boeing office is actually in Plano, not in Frisco. Plano's Legacy west has one of highest per sqft retail and residential (the high rise condos) in whole of DFW metro.
The granite park and JP Morgan etc etc, FEDEX, Toyota, Intuit, Fannie Mae all those HQ are all in PLANO.
If you're implying the opposite, that Frisco lacks all these great things of Plano - then its even more confusing. Frisco does not have the money? Its one highest HHI in Metro, Diversity? Have you seen Richwoods/Lexington?? There is so much diversity that its almost too little diversity. Price? One of highest prices for anything in DFW Metro.
I'm not going to focus on other points how you made broad sweeping national market trends based on your street...
I am confused by your wording, is it Frisco or Plano that has corporate headquarters, jobs/diversity or more money?
It seems like you mean Plano does not have the corporate HQ's and retail. Which makes no sense because Legacy West and Legacy North and their subsequent expansions are ALL in Plano. So that Boeing office is actually in Plano, not in Frisco. Plano's Legacy west has one of highest per sqft retail and residential (the high rise condos) in whole of DFW metro.
The granite park and JP Morgan etc etc, FEDEX, Toyota, Intuit, Fannie Mae all those HQ are all in PLANO.
If you're implying the opposite, that Frisco lacks all these great things of Plano - then its even more confusing. Frisco does not have the money? Its one highest HHI in Metro, Diversity? Have you seen Richwoods/Lexington?? There is so much diversity that its almost too little diversity. Price? One of highest prices for anything in DFW Metro.
I never said anything about national trends and maintain that my neighborhood and city are an anomaly for reasons I cannot comprehend.
Frisco has the money, but that's all it has. Frisco is what does not have the corporations, jobs, or even quite the retail. It definitely has the money, and that's all it has. That, much worse traffic, and an excess of schools, probably two to three times more than it should. It does not have income or housing diversity. It's all the same across all 60 square miles. It's an illustration of Malvina Reynolds's 1962 song "Little Boxes," all made of ticky tacky. Plano itself is ironically more affordable.
If you are looking for a source for the demand and price increases, check the relationship to Indian immigration and H1B numbers. I'm starting to get convinced that if the H1B program ended or Indian immigration dropped or were restricted substantially, the housing market would probably go back or very close to its pre-pandemic state. However, until politicians stop mollycoddling the lobbyists, big businesses, and universities with visas and policy accommodations, our housing crisis is only going to get worse.
I never said anything about national trends and maintain that my neighborhood and city are an anomaly for reasons I cannot comprehend.
Frisco has the money, but that's all it has. Frisco is what does not have the corporations, jobs, or even quite the retail. It definitely has the money, and that's all it has. That, much worse traffic, and an excess of schools, probably two to three times more than it should. It does not have income or housing diversity. It's all the same across all 60 square miles. It's an illustration of Malvina Reynolds's 1962 song "Little Boxes," all made of ticky tacky. Plano itself is ironically more affordable.
If you are looking for a source for the demand and price increases, check the relationship to Indian immigration and H1B numbers. I'm starting to get convinced that if the H1B program ended or Indian immigration dropped or were restricted substantially, the housing market would probably go back or very close to its pre-pandemic state. However, until politicians stop mollycoddling the lobbyists, big businesses, and universities with visas and policy accommodations, our housing crisis is only going to get worse.
Frisco has been building schools non stop due to capacity issues. If they didn’t build a school, there would be nowhere for kids to attend. How is that “2-3 times what it should”?
Have you ever been to any of the office or medical complexes over by the Star? Do you not realize those are employment centers as well?
Retail? Are you effing joking? Main is retail and restaurants for miles!
I’m seriously wondering if your posting from some kind of alternate universe.
You were just saying that Frisco didn’t have the income to support the housing stock there and now they do, but it’s just not diverse?
Uh. Also - a giant chunk of the South Asian population in Frisco is not in on an H1B, so put away the bars and stars for a minute.
Frisco has the money, but that's all it has. Frisco is what does not have the corporations, jobs, or even quite the retail. It definitely has the money, and that's all it has.
It doesn't have corporate HQs like Plano, but there are plenty of retail jobs. The claim that there is little retail there is absurd.
That, much worse traffic, and an excess of schools, probably two to three times more than it should.
This is assuming that schools should be massive like Plano or Allen. Lots of people prefer smaller schools like those in Frisco.
It does not have income or housing diversity. It's all the same across all 60 square miles. It's an illustration of Malvina Reynolds's 1962 song "Little Boxes," all made of ticky tacky. Plano itself is ironically more affordable.
Agreed.
If you are looking for a source for the demand and price increases, check the relationship to Indian immigration and H1B numbers. I'm starting to get convinced that if the H1B program ended or Indian immigration dropped or were restricted substantially, the housing market would probably go back or very close to its pre-pandemic state. However, until politicians stop mollycoddling the lobbyists, big businesses, and universities with visas and policy accommodations, our housing crisis is only going to get worse.
There's a lot more to the housing issues than this, but even then, where would you suggest getting high-skilled workers from? Most other countries are smoking us in STEM education.
Frisco has been building schools non stop due to capacity issues. If they didn’t build a school, there would be nowhere for kids to attend. How is that “2-3 times what it should”?
Have you ever been to any of the office or medical complexes over by the Star? Do you not realize those are employment centers as well?
Retail? Are you effing joking? Main is retail and restaurants for miles!
I’m seriously wondering if your posting from some kind of alternate universe.
You were just saying that Frisco didn’t have the income to support the housing stock there and now they do, but it’s just not diverse?
Uh. Also - a giant chunk of the South Asian population in Frisco is not in on an H1B, so put away the bars and stars for a minute.
I said Frisco did not have the retail or employment that Plano did. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot. It definitely has a lot. I never said Frisco did not have the income to support the housing. Frisco does not have all the high-paying jobs that Plano does. That doesn't mean it has none. The people who live there have substantially higher incomes. Most likely work from home or commute out of the city.
When people have difficulty speaking clear English, it's a clear signal to me they are coming straight off the boat. Granted, I don't see anything showing an exceptional spike in the last few years, so you could well be right, and there must be more to it.
As for the later comment below about where to get STEM workers, there are plenty of Americans who can fill the universities and do those jobs, and even if there weren't, it wouldn't be justified. Other than the medical field, there are far more important and critical jobs we need to fill, most of which do not need a four year degree. We have way, way too many kids going to those left-wing indoctrination camps.
As for the later comment below about where to get STEM workers, there are plenty of Americans who can fill the universities and do those jobs, and even if there weren't, it wouldn't be justified. Other than the medical field, there are far more important and critical jobs we need to fill, most of which do not need a four year degree. We have way, way too many kids going to those left-wing indoctrination camps.
I agree that we would benefit from training more Americans to do these jobs, but until we’re there, I don’t see another way to bridge the gap.
The jobs that don’t require 4 year degrees aren’t typically the aforementioned STEM jobs, though. I think too many people go to college as it is, but there are some fields where we need more people, not less. I’m also not so sure about the left wing indoctrination camp comment — colleges are generally quite liberal and some fields (liberal arts) are off-the-charts, but in most disciplines, it either doesn’t come up or the professors are conservative (business, for example)
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