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I would venture to say that an Ivy is assured for the top 5 at any of the Plano Schools AS WELL as Highland Park.
I don't think this is true for any other school in the metroplex - maybe the Richardson schools. I've interviewed val/sals from the Garland area, Carrollton area, and Coppell area, and none of them have been admitted to Duke. Every kid from a Plano school (that was top 10) has gotten in - I've also interviewed several kids that weren't, and they haven't gotten in.
If you would have gone to Exeter, well then as long as your in the top 30%, you're pretty much assured a spot at an Ivy.
If you really want to go to an Ivy, it's there if you're top 10. You might not get Harvard/Yale, but at the very least, Cornell/Columbia will take you.
There is a HUGE point missing here - the increasingly homogenization of the Plano/Richardson/HP kids. I literally interview 15-20 kids every year, and only 1-2 stand out with exception stories. The rest aren't bad kids, and I think would do awesome at an Ivy, but they all read like the same story - they all have taken 15 AP classes, they all have above 2200 SAT scores, and they all have done low level work in 15 different clubs.
All of the top colleges are aware of this. You would be scared to realize how much detail they get to know the applications. My admissions counselor still remembered my essay 4 years later when I was about to graduate. They all know the growing Plano/Richardson stereotypes - and its starting to hurt against us.
Strive to make your kids "different". I've said this before in previous threads, but it's better if your kid does one thing REALLY well, rather than a million other things.
The only thing you've proven is an unfounded superiority complex found more often in Collin County than other parts of Dallas. Thanks for proving the initial point of the thread.
Pot. Kettle. Black. Look how apoplectic you got when I dared to question the supremacy of the Highland Park school system. There's someone feeling superior, but I'm not sure it's me.
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You have no facts regarding the certainty of acceptance for top PISD grads.
Yeah, I do. I have 5 years of data showing that PISD puts multiple kids in Ivies every single year. I'm sorry the truth doesn't fit your world view that HP rules all.
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The Ivies are not certain for anyone. Not at Exeter, Highland Park or Plano.
ABSOLUTELY certain? No. But there are definitely tiers of schools. For most schools, even the #1 kid will get his/her app tossed unless he/she has a massive hook.
You really think that (absent something REALLY off with the applicant) the top kid from St. Mark's or Cistercian can't attend Harvard if he wants to? And Exeter? That's crazy. 90% of the top 1/2 of that class is going to be Ivy-bound. They cleared that hurdle when they got into Exeter.
Most boring thread ever, why do you care about other people's kids?
This thread has proven one thing though, that you guys are big enough ***** to fit into any Ivy League school. Get a room
I'm quite sure it will play out that my kid ends up going to UT with 100+ other kids from each of Plano Senior, Highland Park, Coppell, and other high-quality schools around here, where they all kick butt due to their high school prep work.
I've enjoyed reading this thread. I graduated from Trinity High School in Euless, then Trinity University in San Antonio and had class mates who were from HP, UP, East Plano and West Plano...and even a few from Hockaday, St.Mark's, and even Philips Exeter, Deerfield Academy, and Boston Latin. The students who had the biggest advantage were those from boarding schools, as they were used to being on their own. But that advantage evaporated after a semester. From an academic perspective, I, being from somewhere humble like Trinity Euless, was able to hold my own.
All of the angst about class rank is really pretty silly when it gets right down to it. You need grades good enough to get into a decent university, but that's really it. The B.S. and B.A. really don't have much value anymore and the vaunted alumni network, and even the more coveted greek network, really don't have much value. When was the last time any of you hired someone because they were an alum, or were a member of the same frat or sorority. The Ivies, and I've met many Ivy grads in my career, are good, but not radically better at the undergrad level than UT or A&M alum. The operative word there is radically. Where the Ivies shine is at the graduate level because that's where students work more closely with the hot-shot faculty. But even there the dynamic is different, not all Ph.D.'s from Harvard are brilliant, and not all Ph.D.'s from somewhere more humble like the Univeristy of Houston, are hacks. It just doesn't hold water. The tweedy image of the Ivy's producing America's best and brightest just doesn't hold that much water anymore. There was a time when it did and a A.B. degree from Harvard came with a halo and choir of angles, but those days are long gone.
What you really get with admission to the Ivies is a good education and entree into the Northeastern business establishment. That's great if you want to work for Goldman Sachs, but if you want to work in Texas, you're better off at UT, A&M, SMU, TCU, Trinity or Rice. Just like if you want to work in California, go to UCLA, USC, Berkley, Cal Tech or Stanford.
And finally, the notion of sending your little prince or princess to an Ivy to marry into the "American Royalty" (old Northeastern money), is utterly silly for the following reasons.
1 -- The Ivy bachelor's degree has become the hallmark of the top of the upper-middle class, not the hallmark of the upper-class.
2 -- Old yankee money, stopped sending its children to the Ivy's years ago, most of them are at small liberal arts schools in New England with names you've never heard before.
3 -- Texas is still viewed by many in the Northeast as backward and crass. Let's take it step further, red states are still viewed as backward and crass by most of the Northeast. No prince or princess of New England or Manhattan, is going be impressed with Miss Teen West Plano's LV or Gucci bag and would be slightly embarrassed to be seen riding shotgun in Miss Teen West Plano's shiny new BMW. The social cues and sensibilities for affluence in the Northeast are different than they are in Texas and there will be some culture clash.
4 -- There is just as much, if not more money in Texas than in Northeast. So, unless junior has his/her heart set on working in Manhattan, I wouldn't waste the time or the effort on the Ivy bachelor's degree.
With all of that said, I think we need to realize that Texas has quite a bit to offer, and you can live anywhere and choose to get caught up in the "keeping up with the neighbors" or not. It all has to do with being confident in who you are.
I've enjoyed reading this thread. I graduated from Trinity High School in Euless, then Trinity University in San Antonio and had class mates who were from HP, UP, East Plano and West Plano...and even a few from Hockaday, St.Mark's, and even Philips Exeter, Deerfield Academy, and Boston Latin. The students who had the biggest advantage were those from boarding schools, as they were used to being on their own. But that advantage evaporated after a semester. From an academic perspective, I, being from somewhere humble like Trinity Euless, was able to hold my own.
All of the angst about class rank is really pretty silly when it gets right down to it. You need grades good enough to get into a decent university, but that's really it. The B.S. and B.A. really don't have much value anymore and the vaunted alumni network, and even the more coveted greek network, really don't have much value. When was the last time any of you hired someone because they were an alum, or were a member of the same frat or sorority. The Ivies, and I've met many Ivy grads in my career, are good, but not radically better at the undergrad level than UT or A&M alum. The operative word there is radically. Where the Ivies shine is at the graduate level because that's where students work more closely with the hot-shot faculty. But even there the dynamic is different, not all Ph.D.'s from Harvard are brilliant, and not all Ph.D.'s from somewhere more humble like the Univeristy of Houston, are hacks. It just doesn't hold water. The tweedy image of the Ivy's producing America's best and brightest just doesn't hold that much water anymore. There was a time when it did and a A.B. degree from Harvard came with a halo and choir of angles, but those days are long gone.
What you really get with admission to the Ivies is a good education and entree into the Northeastern business establishment. That's great if you want to work for Goldman Sachs, but if you want to work in Texas, you're better off at UT, A&M, SMU, TCU, Trinity or Rice. Just like if you want to work in California, go to UCLA, USC, Berkley, Cal Tech or Stanford.
And finally, the notion of sending your little prince or princess to an Ivy to marry into the "American Royalty" (old Northeastern money), is utterly silly for the following reasons.
1 -- The Ivy bachelor's degree has become the hallmark of the top of the upper-middle class, not the hallmark of the upper-class.
2 -- Old yankee money, stopped sending its children to the Ivy's years ago, most of them are at small liberal arts schools in New England with names you've never heard before.
3 -- Texas is still viewed by many in the Northeast as backward and crass. Let's take it step further, red states are still viewed as backward and crass by most of the Northeast. No prince or princess of New England or Manhattan, is going be impressed with Miss Teen West Plano's LV or Gucci bag and would be slightly embarrassed to be seen riding shotgun in Miss Teen West Plano's shiny new BMW. The social cues and sensibilities for affluence in the Northeast are different than they are in Texas and there will be some culture clash.
4 -- There is just as much, if not more money in Texas than in Northeast. So, unless junior has his/her heart set on working in Manhattan, I wouldn't waste the time or the effort on the Ivy bachelor's degree.
With all of that said, I think we need to realize that Texas has quite a bit to offer, and you can live anywhere and choose to get caught up in the "keeping up with the neighbors" or not. It all has to do with being confident in who you are.
You sir win the internet That is an outstanding post, very well stated.
Thank you greenLotusDriver. As a New Yorker from a small liberal arts college, married to a man with two Ivy educations, I couldn't have said it better myself. You sir are spot on.
Old money ... upper class, northeastern, WASPY thinking goes like this ... get your child the best overall Liberal Arts education you can. Educated and Ivy are not synonymous. Train your child to be a leader and critical thinker first and foremost. Material status is irrelevant to the upper class. They already have it, but tend not to flaunt it. They seek to preserve it … starting a business or running the family business(es). As for marriage ...if you’re hoping to send your kid to an Ivy to marry into money ... you’re good to date. Old money marries like-minded thinkers of equal socioeconomic status who will give them a run for their money rather than spend it. Your shiny new BMW or LV bag will not impress.
As for going to an Ivy with the intent of working on Wall Street ... yikes. My "old money friends" think working on Wall Street is the equivalent of being a worker bee. It’s a vacuous environment of instant gratification (or not, depending on how the market’s doing that day) where you’re sure to get stung by the need to flaunt your latest material acquisition. Most Wall Streeters are new money. New money wears their so called wealth on their sleeve. The children of old money, northeastern wasps in turn are taught to roll up their sleeves and get to work preserving and prospering from the fruits of their family's labor (and wealth).
greenLotusDriver is right …going to Harvard intent on working at Goldman is the thinking of the upper middle class. The children of old money ... don't invest their sweat equity (unless it's in private equity and that's another story) in the Wall Street Ponzi scheme ... they use their sweat equity, their higher education and their family wealth to continue the cycle of prosperity by creating real business with real substance. Maybe they'll dip their toes into the Goldman Sachs scene, but more than likely ... not.
However, not all people are so fortunate to be born into old money. But it seems that the temptations of easy money (ie Wall Street) suck the gift of higher education and “critical thought” out of the Ivy educated and replace it with the gambler’s mentality of quick and easy monetary gratification. I married a man with two Ivy League Educations who spent a short time on Wall Street. He was poor, smart and very hungry when he started and certainly not from wealth. We are not status seekers, but instead scrimpers and savers. We were an anomaly in NY. Why … because we believe saving money and putting it to work is the only real way to create and preserve wealth when you’re not born into it. Easy money comes and goes… and when it goes, debt follows. We’ve seen it happen to our neighbors, “the Joneses” in NY. Materialism gets ugly in the shadow of the Repo man.
We're teaching our children to be thinkers, not spenders. Whether we live in the Park Cities or not doesn't matter. We'll fit in anywhere. Our families "worth" will never be measured by our bank account. Our feeling is to get educated and get to work creating your own business or running an existing business of substance in which you have control over the outcome of its success. Work hard. Treat others the way you wish to be treated.
My old money Northeastern friends already know this and live it. And sure, if you don't come from "old money" an Ivy education will help you get in the door of America's Fortune 500 companies ... but what separates those that will succeed from those who will fail (even with an Ivy Ed.) is a willingness to get your hands dirty under the hood of the car and make it work, not drive around in shiny new roadster saying ... "look at me."
Seems like everyone who needs to send their kid to an Ivy League school for status would better serve their child if they taught them that America's real success was/is built on enterprise and substance. America should not be a house of cards built around making a quick buck in a levered up world of easy stock trades on Wall Street where your level of success is measured by the clothes on your back or the car you drive. Those who are to prosper in the future have an educated confidence based on the ability to "do" rather than the ability to "buy"." America needs enterprise and business leaders, not more status seeking Ivy Leaguers, Louis V carriers or BMW drivers. Don't get me wrong, some of the best and the brightest attend the Ivies. But the most critical lessons begin at home. IMHO ...Success is not measured by where you go to school, or what you can buy, but what you can contribute. Wall Street's an illusion. I’ve been exposed to it having lived in Manhattan for 15 plus years with many friends who still choose to work there. Many agree with my opinion ... that quick easy money at the expense of our country’s economic foundation, is leading to the downfall of America. Wake up ... cheesy overindulgence is “out.” Enterprising innovation and leadership is “in.” Let's teach our children to be innovators. Forget the status symbols. Let's get to work making sure our children know what's really important ... and it's not what you wear or where you go to school ... it's what you do with your time to create something real and worthwhile by preserving the integrity of our country. Let's teach our children to lead America to a future where they can compete in a global economy, as opposed to merely competing with their neighbors, "The Joneses." Afterall, the Joneses are in debt up to their eyeballs.
This is an interesting and thought provoking thread. It made me think of the blessings God has given me in my life like parents who taught me where real value lies as it has nothing to do with the dollar. I'm grateful that God has given me the desire to improve those attributes he has given me to provide for my family and be a good steward of them.
I've also learned that comparison is the thief of all joy. Whether one has been blessed with much or very little, we each have our own path to walk and learn from. At the end of the day, what have we done with those gifts?
Anyway, I'm not looking to jump into this thread to argue the differences of merit between one side or the other. I just appreciate this site and some of the questions it raises.
Ryan
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