Boston to Denver -- good idea or bad idea? (tech jobs, quality of life)

[JBPisgah]

Originally Posted by boilingblacksea

And I want to debunk the 'outdoors' myth. You don't have to care about mountains to love it here. Denver offers much in the way of urban sophistication.

It's a very liberal city, more so than LA, where I lived for 10 years --where racial tensions were also sky high, in contrast to almost zero here.

I don't know about "urban sophistication," but I can think of 15 US cities with a more urban feel than Denver, just off the top of my head. I've never lived in LA, but Denver doesn't have the same ultra-open vibe of Seattle or Portland (and I'm guessing, SF). It feels more conventional.

[downtownnola]

Originally Posted by boilingblacksea

And I want to debunk the 'outdoors' myth. You don't have to care about mountains to love it here. Denver offers much in the way of urban sophistication.

It's a very liberal city, more so than LA, where I lived for 10 years --where racial tensions were also sky high, in contrast to almost zero here.

To us, it was a positive move.

Thank you. There are tons of people who live here who really aren't into the "outdoors" thing. Although I enjoy a hiking or camping trip up to the mountains every once in a while, I definately consider myself more of an urbanite and Denver offers plenty to keep me entertained.

I agree that Denver is a liberal city. It's liberal in a very live-and-let-live type of way.

[GoneNative]

Originally Posted by JBPisgah

I don't know about "urban sophistication," but I can think of 15 US cities with a more urban feel than Denver, just off the top of my head. I've never lived in LA, but Denver doesn't have the same ultra-open vibe of Seattle or Portland (and I'm guessing, SF). It feels more conventional.

I absolutely agree. I cannot imagine somebody moving to Denver without a serious interest in the mountains. I'm not very outdoorsy, and I probably wouldn't live here if I wasn't from here. It is the mountains, and not the city itself, that draws people to Denver and Colorado more generally.

And I also think it's absurd to suggest that Denver is more liberal than somewhere like Los Angeles or Boston.

[synapse]

I can think of cities that probably would meet your criteria *better* than Denver, but that said, I don't think you'd be unhappy in Denver.

First off, like Boston, it's a fairly young city. No, there aren't as many colleges driving the age to the mid 20's, but it's still a place people tend to come to for or shortly after college, so there's a lot of young people around.

Second, yes, as you've noticed, the place is *much* cheaper than just about anywhere in Boston.

Third, SAD isn't a problem here. Denver's sunny 300 days a year. We don't get that mideastern gloom.

Fourth, you don't have to have a view of the mountains from your apartment to enjoy them. All over the city as you walk or drive, you'll see the mountains. Much more accessible than, say, the ocean. So don't worry about that.

Fifth, dry skin is so easily fixable - bring a small tube of lotion with you - that I don't really think that should be an issue.

Now, the problems.

Yes, Denver is kind of car-based. There's an excellent public transit system, but unlike the T in Boston the light rail is a bit limited. You can use buses to get to most of the neighborhoods, and people certainly do, but failing that places like Cherry Creek and Highland, two of the nicest areas in the city of Denver, are mostly accessible by car. That said, biking is easy here, and you certainly don't *have* to have a car in some areas. So that might be a wash.

Isolation depends on how you look at it. Denver is rather isolated in location. There simply aren't any other major cities anywhere around. The nearest major city is Albuquerque, which isn't very major, and that's a seven hour drive. However, the surrounding area is beautiful. Denver's right against the Rockies and easy reach to interesting cities like Boulder. And it's isolation in the middle of the country is, to some extent, an advantage if you don't mind flying - almost every major city is two to three hours away by plane. And DIA is very easy to get in and out of.

Denver does feel different than Boston. In Boston you can walk amongst twisty streets to almost everything, much like NYC. You can't do that in Denver; it's more spread out. There's plenty to do, but it doesn't have quite the cultural amenities of Boston, and certainly not New York City.

My biggest concern is that you say you're not huge outdoors people. One of the biggest advantages of Denver is that it combines some of the amenities of a city - nice restaurants, cute downtown, friendly neighborhoods - with a blow you away spectacular outdoor location. You don't have to ski, but those who don't tend to like to hike. You don't have to hike, but those who don't tend to like to bike. You won't miss *out* if you don't join the outdoorsy scene - there's plenty to do in Denver, and it's not like it doesn't have one of the best bookstores in the country (Tattered Cover) but you'll feel like you're missing out if you don't at least like to hike in the mountains, which doesn't really require the cost and energy of, say, skiing.

I don't think you'd be unhappy in Denver, but it sounds to me like a city like San Francisco is a bit closer to what you're looking for.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by synapse

And DIA is very easy to get in and out of.

I agreed with your post until I saw this comment. DIA is one of the most PITA airports I've even been in (and I've been in a lot of them). It's in the middle of nowhere WAY far from the city, a solid 30 minute drive from downtown, up to an hour drive from some parts of the metro. The whole process from parking to walking to the terminal, checking in, standing in line at security, taking the subway, walking to the gate, etc can easily take a full hour. It's a nice, modern airport, but getting in and out of there is a huge project.

[synapse]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I agreed with your post until I saw this comment. DIA is one of the most PITA airports I've even been in (and I've been in a lot of them). It's in the middle of nowhere WAY far from the city, a solid 30 minute drive from downtown, up to an hour drive from some parts of the metro. The whole process from parking to walking to the terminal, checking in, standing in line at security, taking the subway, walking to the gate, etc can easily take a full hour. It's a nice, modern airport, but getting in and out of there is a huge project.

Yeah, perhaps I overstated that, especially as it's just me and I usually just carry on a bag on Southwest, so that's not an entirely fair comparison. What I was referring to is that it's a pretty efficiently run airport, particularly the ability to park in the economy lot and walk to the terminal. But yeah, the fact that it's *so* far from even downtown, and the train system to the gates, is a little daunting. But I still think it's better than, say, O'Hare, Hartsfield or LAX.

[bisou]

Hi Jen,
What do you REALLY have to loose? You are young, you can work from home, and you have the means to get out here. Try it out, you will never TRULY know until you do.
That said, I'm from the East Coast and have also lived in Germany (so I understand the gloom that descends around 4pm and how that can get to a person).
We live in Boulder and have been here since July. Not a long time but long enough to experience a few things:
1) the dryness is REAL. Plan on having cracked lips, dry skin, and a never ending thirst as your body adapts to the climate and altitude
2) we don't have a car, and have been able to get around pretty well. You can rent those cars you get for a day or couple of hours if you want to take a more extended trip or have special errands
3) we are NOT outdoorsy BUT there is something about the climate and culture out here that makes you want to spend time outdoors even if it is just for a walk
4) people are REALLY laid back here. You see the friendliness in evidence and it says a lot that SOOOOO many people are transplants, yet they continue to contribute to the Denver vibe. The most amazing thing I have seen is how EVERYONE who rides the Boulder (can't speak for the Denver RTD) bus system greets and thanks the bus drivers (young and old alike). Love it!
5) This IS a dogfriendly place and a great place to be a human companion to one. However, watch out for the dog rent when you look for a place to live.
6) In terms of feeling isolated... I haven't felt too isolated yet but when I get there, I'll be taking a trip. You'll have lower costs and you don't have kids, this means you can get out of Denver when you feel the urge.

Best of luck to you. It IS a big decision but so is STAYING put in Boston knowing you have SAD and high costs.
Bisou

[jenfromboston1]

Thank you so much, everyone. I've been reading all the comments with interest, and of course spending every hour of every day agonizing over the decision. I think, based on what I'm reading, that dryness is a concern but not a deal breaker, so there's that. And although you can't really drive anywhere from Denver, it's true that it's in the middle of the country, so it's nice and easy to fly places. And how often do I really see the beach here? Not that often. Not often enough for it to bother me that there's no ocean around.

Originally Posted by synapse

My biggest concern is that you say you're not huge outdoors people. One of the biggest advantages of Denver is that it combines some of the amenities of a city - nice restaurants, cute downtown, friendly neighborhoods - with a blow you away spectacular outdoor location. You don't have to ski, but those who don't tend to like to hike. You don't have to hike, but those who don't tend to like to bike. You won't miss *out* if you don't join the outdoorsy scene - there's plenty to do in Denver, and it's not like it doesn't have one of the best bookstores in the country (Tattered Cover) but you'll feel like you're missing out if you don't at least like to hike in the mountains, which doesn't really require the cost and energy of, say, skiing.

I don't think you'd be unhappy in Denver, but it sounds to me like a city like San Francisco is a bit closer to what you're looking for.

This is still my biggest concern, too. It's entirely possible that we'll end up suddenly becoming more of outdoorsy people, once we're in a dry climate (not sticky and gross in the warm months like where we're used to) that doesn't have many bugs. But we don't want to count on that, so what if it doesn't happen? Definitely something to think about. The other thing I'm still worried about is that Denver may be too much other driving cities, like Houston for example. (But then, if we get bikes, maybe it won't be so bad. And maybe the buses aren't terrible, though some other posts on here have been a bit disparaging.)

But, as a number of other people have reiterated, why not? We don't have much to lose. We're going to reconsider places like SF and NY, compare with Denver, and see what we're really hoping for in the next place we live.

[jenfromboston1]

Originally Posted by bisou

Hi Jen,
What do you REALLY have to loose? You are young, you can work from home, and you have the means to get out here. Try it out, you will never TRULY know until you do.

Best of luck to you. It IS a big decision but so is STAYING put in Boston knowing you have SAD and high costs.
Bisou

Thank you! A VERY good point, and an important one to remember.

[synapse]

You might become more outdoorsy, in fact. The city sort of lends itself to that. The one thing I do want to add is that Denver is *nothing* like Houston. Houston is a true driving city - sprawl in every direction, like Los Angeles or Phoenix. Denver is much, much more compact, and while people *do* drive you don't absolutely *have* to. That's very different than Houston.