Where Should I Move? Denver/ San Diego/ Las Vegas (Boulder: appointed, fit in)

[otterprods]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I've paddled the 280 miles from below Lake Powell to Lake Mead. The section you are describing is boooooooring (but very pretty). Also, Lake Mead counts under the "lakes" category, not rivers. We have so much more going on in Colorado if whitewater is something that you are interested in. Vegas getting the nod on rivers is just ridiculous. How's the trout fishing? How's the kayaking? There is one big river that is summarily damned up. Not much else going on there. Meanwhile in Colorado, we are home to dozens of rivers and creeks, all but one of which originate within the state.

I gave Vegas the nod. So did the OP. But you don't have to.

Why do whitewater people often assume that they are the final word on all things wet? Yes, I know Lake Mead is a lake. That's why I referred to it in a separate sentence and used the word 'LAKE'. True, the section of river below Hoover dam is flat, so if you need rapids to keep you entertained then yes you would probably find it "boooooooring".

But the comparison was between Denver, Vegas and San Diego, not those two cites vs the entire STATE of CO. If you're comparing states then obviously CO has much more wild & scenic waterways than Nevada. If you're talking about rivers, especially whitewater runs, then CO is one of the top locations in the country if not the world, at least in a good year. However, there are many different types of paddling that are very enjoyable in other ways. Not every outdoor activity needs to be some extreme rush and/or hip scene just to be enjoyable. The best paddling I've ever done was on flat water, far away from 29 year old know-it-alls in 3-foot-long boats.

[robbien9]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Vegas getting the nod on rivers is just ridiculous. How's the trout fishing? How's the kayaking? There is one big river that is summarily damned up. Not much else going on there. Meanwhile in Colorado, we are home to dozens of rivers and creeks, all but one of which originate within the state.

Yeah there really is no trout fishing or kayaking, just visually stimulating, lol.

I've lived in Seattle for most of my life and although there are great trails to hike and enjoy the mountains, I love the fact that the Rockies of Colorado have much more variety. I'm not an avid skiier, but I love hiking, fishing and mountain biking so most of the time, if I head for the mountains, I'd head to Colorado Springs and up toward Boulder --> RMNP way instead of I-70 ski corridor.

Besides Red Rocks, do any of you know the best place(s) locals go for awesome hiking trails/ neat places within an hours drive of Denver? The only hikes I have heard of is El Dorado Canyon, Flatiron Vistas, Garden of the Gods, RMNP, Mt. Evans area and of course Red Rocks.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by otterprods

I gave Vegas the nod. So did the OP. But you don't have to.

Why do whitewater people often assume that they are the final word on all things wet? Yes, I know Lake Mead is a lake. That's why I referred to it in a separate sentence and used the word 'LAKE'. True, the section of river below Hoover dam is flat, so if you need rapids to keep you entertained then yes you would probably find it "boooooooring".

But the comparison was between Denver, Vegas and San Diego, not those two cites vs the entire STATE of CO. If you're comparing states then obviously CO has much more wild & scenic waterways than Nevada. If you're talking about rivers, especially whitewater runs, then CO is one of the top locations in the country if not the world, at least in a good year. However, there are many different types of paddling that are very enjoyable in other ways. Not every outdoor activity needs to be some extreme rush and/or hip scene just to be enjoyable. The best paddling I've ever done was on flat water, far away from 29 year old know-it-alls in 3-foot-long boats.

Possibly because we dedicate a great chunk of our free time to being in, on, and around rivers be they flat, steep, navigable, or unnavigable.

I do plenty of runs that are entirely flat. Most of the Grand Canyon is flat water and it's probably my favorite place on earth.

P.S. I'm 36 and my shortest kayak is more like 6.5 feet. Not really much of a play boater.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by robbien9

Yeah there really is no trout fishing or kayaking, just visually stimulating, lol.

I've lived in Seattle for most of my life and although there are great trails to hike and enjoy the mountains, I love the fact that the Rockies of Colorado have much more variety. I'm not an avid skiier, but I love hiking, fishing and mountain biking so most of the time, if I head for the mountains, I'd head to Colorado Springs and up toward Boulder --> RMNP way instead of I-70 ski corridor.

Besides Red Rocks, do any of you know the best place(s) locals go for awesome hiking trails/ neat places within an hours drive of Denver? The only hikes I have heard of is El Dorado Canyon, Flatiron Vistas, Garden of the Gods, RMNP, Mt. Evans area and of course Red Rocks.

There are tons of open space parks within an hour of Denver. Jefferson County has an awesome open space system.
http://jeffco.us/parks/parks-and-trails/

Clear Creek County also has plenty of trails
http://clearcreekcounty.org/trails/

There are also State Parks nearby. We went to Staunton, which just opened this year, and there is plenty to explore there. Castlewood Canyon, Roxborough, and Golden Gate Canyon are nearby Denver as well and definitely worth checking out

Colorado Parks and Wildlife Home | Colorado Parks and Wildlife

The Colorado Trail starts inDenver and goes all the way to Durango. The section up Waterton Canyon just West of town is great, but you can explore as much of it as you want.

http://www.coloradotrail.org/waterton.html

On top of this there is more down south that I haven't really spent time exploring.


The list is pretty much inexhaustible. In one year, you will barely be able to scratch the surface even if you go to a new place every week.

[otterprods]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

P.S. I'm 36 and my shortest kayak is more like 6.5 feet.

Oops, off by 7 years and three feet. I guess I had you pegged all wrong.

There's plenty of good water in CO. But I happen to think that those lower stretches of the CO between Lake Mead and Lake Havasu are some of the best because they are less prominent and more easily accessible than many other sections. I don't care about rapids because I prefer relatively flat, peaceful paddling that allows plenty of fishing, swimming and other fun along the way. I also don't care about bragging rights for all the rapids I've conquered. Same reason I tend toward 13ers or sub-alpine hikes rather than just doing the same 14ers that everyone else in the state is on. Most importantly, since the OP was comparing cities, there is no large city in the Southwest with better river/lake access than Vegas. Period.

As for great hiking, CO has that in spades. Many good places have already been covered above. There are more, including some great lesser known spots that you can easily find by studying a map and other online resources. I would tell you where they are, but then how long would they be awesome for if I advertised their whereabouts online? If you are interested in 14ers, the best resource for that is 14ers.com. If you're planning on going hiking much this winter, you'll want to get some micro spikes.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by otterprods

Most importantly, since the OP was comparing cities, there is no large city in the Southwest with better river/lake access than Vegas. Period.

I do agree that Lake Mead beats the pants off of anything near Denver, but on the rivers piece......

Why don't we leave it at this: if one large, scenic desert river is your thing, Vegas is better. If you are in to smaller creeks and rivers for things like fly fishing or white water, Denver is better.

And yes you have me pegged just like you know rivers.

[otterprods]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

If you are in to smaller creeks and rivers for things like fly fishing or white water, Denver is better.

I sure would like to know where all these great, pristine, flyfishing and whitewater areas are right around Denver. I guess you're keeping that to yourself, just like my favorite hikes.

You seem to have missed that the original comparison was between Denver and Vegas, not COLORADO and Vegas. If that were the case (or even if it was between all of Nevada and CO) then CO clearly wins by a mile.

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

And yes you have me pegged just like you know rivers.

So it really is some sort of competition with you? I'm sure you know far more about whitewater paddling than I do. And probably some things about flat water paddling too. I have a wife and two children, and several other major focuses in life. I only get out paddling a few times a year these days, as opposed to a few times per week or a few times per day. Good for you if you still can, but what's with the air of superiority? It's nature, not a sports rivalry.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by otterprods

I sure would like to know where all these great, pristine, flyfishing and whitewater areas are within a half hour of downtown Denver. I guess you're keeping that to yourself, just like my favorite hikes.

You seem to have missed that the original comparison was between Denver and Vegas, not COLORADO and Vegas. If that were the case (or even if it was between all of Nevada and CO) then CO clearly wins by a mile.


So it really is some sort of competition with you? I'm sure you know far more about whitewater paddling than I do. And probably some things about flat water paddling too. I have a wife and two children, and several other major focuses in life. I only get out paddling a few times a year these days, as opposed to a few times per week or a few times per day. Good for you if you still can, but what's with the air of superiority? It's nature, not a sports rivalry.

Not about competition, it's about you claiming to know me. I also have a wife, two kids, and a dog. You know exactly squat about my life. As for the "air of superiority", you're the one who insinuated that I'm a 29 year old adrenaline junkie. That's hardly the case. You're also the one who claimed to be too cool to climb 14ers because they are for the masses. Read what you wrote again and try convincing yourself that you weren't saying that you are better than the masses because you opt for 13ers instead. It sounds to me like you've got some personal insecurity issues because you are somehow so threatened by my opinion. You went personal first. Read the thread.

I even tried to give this discussion an out in my last post by saying there are different types of rivers but apparently you can't let go.

As for the 30 minute window, we started at 1 hour but apparently you are shortening it up. At an hour you can be up Clear Creek, the North Fork of the South Platte, or the South Fork of the South Platte. Bailey, Deckers, Foxton, and Pine Valley all have great pristine water. If you want to drive slightly further, you are at The Poudre. I am up Clear Creek Canyon in 30 minutes from my house in Wash Park during rush hour after work.

In any case, this has gone on far too long. I'll happily respond to the OP, but I'm done with you.

[dude_reino]

If money is no problem and you can live near the coast, I suggest San Diego. However, if money is an issue, you will get closer to the urban center of Denver than you will in San Diego (i.e. working San Diegans commute from Temecula).

[illuminatedpast]

Originally Posted by otterprods

I would have chosen SD except that I really can't stand the traffic and the unreasonably high housing prices these days. I do miss the beach and the weather at times but I have family there and it's a cheap flight so we usually go there each spring when the weather is really lousy here.

Agreed on the cheap flights - I've never flown out of San Diego, but I've gotten some great deals on flights between LAX and DIA, so travel between Denver and Southern California can be pretty reasonable if you book far enough in advance. (I'm in LA and my parents are in Denver, so I make this trip on a regular basis.)

I vote Denver with Las Vegas in second place. I love SoCal, but the high cost of living is a drag. It sounds like your money would be better spent in taking trips to new places rather than paying high rent costs. Basing yourself out of Denver would put you within driving distance of new places, while being in SD or Vegas would put you in driving distance of places you've already lived. Denver sounds like more of an adventure for you, so that's my vote!