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Agreed on the cheap flights - I've never flown out of San Diego, but I've gotten some great deals on flights between LAX and DIA, so travel between Denver and Southern California can be pretty reasonable if you book far enough in advance. (I'm in LA and my parents are in Denver, so I make this trip on a regular basis.)
I vote Denver with Las Vegas in second place. I love SoCal, but the high cost of living is a drag. It sounds like your money would be better spent in taking trips to new places rather than paying high rent costs. Basing yourself out of Denver would put you within driving distance of new places, while being in SD or Vegas would put you in driving distance of places you've already lived. Denver sounds like more of an adventure for you, so that's my vote!
Although obvious, that is an excellent point about being in SD/ Vegas would put me in driving distance of places I've already lived/ explored. Even though I do miss the excitement of Vegas and its easy access to cool places and scenic areas, I really need to trust my heart on the reason(s) why I decided to move away in the first place. Then, the comparison really boils down to Denver vs San Diego.
Very valuable information coming from someone who know each city well. Another question. If you disregard the high cost of living of Southern California and ignore the best asset that make each city a desirable place to live (Denver and it's Rocky Mountains) and (San Diego and the Pacific Ocean/ Beaches), what city has more things to do and is a better place to live? I always hear excellent things about each city, mostly because of what's next door, but I lack local insight about what makes the actual city good or bad.
i.e: entertainment, downtown, city parks, crime, restaurants, shopping, aesthetic beauty, local hot spots, people, health etc
Because when all is said and done, if it weren't for the high cost of living, I think San Diego and the Pacific Ocean right there beats Denver and it's Rockies. But obviously, Southern CA living is far from perfect which in my opinion puts Denver ahead.
My comments (written pretty verbosely, sorry if they seem a bit scrambled):
1. Please kill the music - people don't like to get bombarded by music against their will when visiting a random site… it's actually kind of rude to do that.
2. I noticed that the Grand Canyon is on your list of disappointments. Interesting, your expectations must have been really wild. How can you sit on the rim and feel disappointed in any way, even on the crowded side? Maybe you hiked down into it. I've done that and I admit that seems a lot less spectacular from that point of view, but then you come back out again and look at it and just go 'wow'. I've been there many times and it never gets old. I don't stay long though… its not really that kind of park unless you're rafting it.
3. Looks like you've done a lot of driving. I hope you have an efficient car.
4. I have to say that Vegas is probably the most central location for those kinds of trips. There are plenty of places to get to from Denver but you're kind of limited to travel in 2, maybe 3 directions (West, North and South, in that order). The CO high country alone is worth spending a lot of time in, but you will cover a lot of it in a few years if you plan on going at it nearly as intensely as you have been so far. There's a lot of land out east but most people don't like to travel that way because it's prairie for about 200 miles and then plains for another thousand. (I actually like it in limited doses) It would let you start going to points back east with fewer redundant miles each way.
5. Under the cons for Denver you said: "Although the winters in Denver are usually very calm, mild and short-lived," -- that's not really true. Winter storms are usually pretty quick to pass, but not the winters themselves. It's not unusually for it to feel like winter as late as May or are early as late September, especially in the higher elevations in the foothills.
6. So it looks like you've been to many of the top places in the west by now… Congrats, you did in a few years what most people spend decades doing, if ever, and you will always be a richer person because of it. My only other suggestion is: Rregardless of where you live next, consider going a little deeper… off the beaten path. Because that's when it gets really good.
Although obvious, that is an excellent point about being in SD/ Vegas would put me in driving distance of places I've already lived/ explored. Even though I do miss the excitement of Vegas and its easy access to cool places and scenic areas, I really need to trust my heart on the reason(s) why I decided to move away in the first place. Then, the comparison really boils down to Denver vs San Diego.
Very valuable information coming from someone who know each city well. Another question. If you disregard the high cost of living of Southern California and ignore the best asset that make each city a desirable place to live (Denver and it's Rocky Mountains) and (San Diego and the Pacific Ocean/ Beaches), what city has more things to do and is a better place to live? I always hear excellent things about each city, mostly because of what's next door, but I lack local insight about what makes the actual city good or bad.
i.e: entertainment, downtown, city parks, crime, restaurants, shopping, aesthetic beauty, local hot spots, people, health etc
Because when all is said and done, if it weren't for the high cost of living, I think San Diego and the Pacific Ocean right there beats Denver and it's Rockies. But obviously, Southern CA living is far from perfect which in my opinion puts Denver ahead.
Any insight on this would be appreciated!
Very briefly, I think what makes Denver great, and what Vegas sorely lacks is walkable old neighborhoods with small restaurants, shops and coffee shops. Denver has quite a few older neighborhoods with lots of character. Vegas is all strip malls and casinos. Instead of a city with unique, cool, funky areas, Las Vegas feels like a giant suburb. All urban sprawl, all master planned communities. My company is based in Vegas and I have a lot of friends who live there so I see it quite a bit. The closest thing Vegas has to a cool, old neighborhood is downtown, but it has a long way to go. Still pretty sketchy. Trees are the other thing that I really miss when I'm in Vegas. The old Denver neighborhoods have tree lined streets that make great shade in the summer. Vegas has palm trees.
The other big differentiator to me between Denver and Vegas is the general attitudes of the people. Las Vegas is all about image. Flashy clothes, flashy car, flashy girls. Denver is more activity driven. Instead of people showing off their new fake boobs, people here seem to me more likely to be bragging about the mountain they just climbed or ski trip they just took. Not saying one is better than the other, but it's just very different.
San Diego is great. It's one of the few cities outside of Denver that I've been to where after leaving I think, "I could live there." The Gas Lamp District rivals LoDo. The beer scene is awesome. The people seem less image driven than they are in Las Vegas. I haven't spent enough time there to claim to really know the city well, but I like it. I would miss my rivers and mountains, but I imagine that the ocean would make up for it.
If you haven't seen this thread you might want to look at it: //www.city-data.com/forum/city-...san-diego.html
But it's hardly unbiased and it goes on for pages… Typical bunch of SoCal people saying "Denver sux!" and Denver people saying 'San Diego sux!". Not very helpful. I think the info you already got on here is much better.
I sure would like to know where all these great, pristine, flyfishing and whitewater areas are right around Denver. I guess you're keeping that to yourself, just like my favorite hikes.
Here they are,
The South Platte River in Waterton Canyon just 20 miles southwest of Downtown Denver is one of the pristine fly fishing areas that SkyDog77 is referring to. Also Clear Creek which is just 15 to 20 miles west of Downtown Denver is also excellent for fishing. The headwaters of the Colorado River just 2 hours from Denver near Rocky Mountain National Park is also an excellent fishing spot, plus it has sections of calm water and rapids. All of these rivers offer great rafting and kayaking areas within an hours drive from Denver.
These are all within the same distance from Denver that the Colorado River is from Vegas!
There are a lot more white water rafting areas around Denver than in Vegas, but there are also calm stretches of rivers such as the Platte, Clear Creek, and Bear Creek in the Denver area too. Obviously the section of the Colorado river near Vegas is wider than the rivers through Denver as you've mentioned, so if that's your thing then Vegas is better, but remember it's just one river.
Lake Mead is bigger than anything in Colorado, but remember most of the water in Lake Mead comes from the mountains of Colorado! Colorado definitely gives too much of its water away!
The South Platte River in Waterton Canyon just 20 miles southwest of Downtown Denver is one of the pristine fly fishing areas that SkyDog77 is referring to. Also Clear Creek which is just 15 to 20 miles west of Downtown Denver is also excellent for fishing. The headwaters of the Colorado River just 2 hours from Denver near Rocky Mountain National Park is also an excellent fishing spot, plus it has sections of calm water and rapids. All of these rivers offer great rafting and kayaking areas within an hours drive from Denver.
These are all within the same distance from Denver that the Colorado River is from Vegas!
There are a lot more white water rafting areas around Denver than in Vegas, but there are also calm stretches of rivers such as the Platte, Clear Creek, and Bear Creek in the Denver area too. Obviously the section of the Colorado river near Vegas is wider than the rivers through Denver as you've mentioned, so if that's your thing then Vegas is better, but remember it's just one river.
Lake Mead is bigger than anything in Colorado, but remember most of the water in Lake Mead comes from the mountains of Colorado! Colorado definitely gives too much of its water away!
I forgot to mention Boulder Creek as well. Also within an hour of Denver.
I was born in Tucson, lived there 10 years until my family moved to Denver where I grew up for 24 years until moving to San Diego last year so to answer some of your questions.... (and I am not a San Diego or Denver Hater but more neutral)
Entertainment/Downtown
Denver has decent entertainment and bar scene but with San Diego you are so close to LA and surrounding areas that it really widens your options. Obviously you've visited SD and you liked the Gaslamp District and there definitely seems to be a good bar/party scene locally but we also head to LA usually a couple times a month and there is so much to do up there as well. Denver has a lot of brewery's but having lived in San Diego now I would say San Diego probably has more and are very into their micro brews.
City Parks
Both destinations have nice parks and outdoor spaces but they are physically very different. Sometimes you have to pay to enter some of these locations in CO (Rocky Mountain, certain reservoirs and parks) and almost all of San Diego is free that I've seen. Both locations have a great amount of outdoor recreational activities. Since moving here I found out I love Paddleboarding on Mission Bay, we're buying mountain/hybrid bikes to get outside more, go walk on the beach and there are tons of water sports you can rent/do. Colorado has great skiing, biking, hiking, kayaking and more as well, we just weren't doing them anymore and heard the ocean calling us.
Crime
I mean this is going to happen everywhere and while I do think it's worse in San Diego (just tons more people) there are also some pretty horrific things that have happened in Denver. I've never felt terribly unsafe in either location.
Restaurants
I am biased here and will say Denver has better food and I have been pretty disappointed with the abundance of really uninspiring meals we've had in San Diego (and I love pretty much any type of food). There are some good restaurants we've found around town (and we go all over the place) but we've eaten at so many over priced, completely packed restaurants with crap tasting food. Denver hands down wins for better food to me and I mean all types of cuisine. I will give San Diego the fish taco and that's about it. I do love the year round farmers markets in SD. You can go to one everyday of the week all around town and they have food vendors, entertainment, art and more in addition to the produce and locally made products.
Shopping
Denver for me wins on this one due to convenience. The problem with the shopping in San Diego is that they didn't plan well for the amount of people here. Most areas of Denver have adequately been planned with the typical big box stores on almost every corner and sufficient malls. It depends on where you live in San Diego but the shopping just isn't as convenient and it can be very picked over/disaster zone looking sometimes.
Aesthetic Beauty
If we aren't talking about the beach which is obviously great I would say overall Denver is prettier year round and has nicer parks/outdoor spaces (and beautiful mountains) than San Diego. During the winter in San Diego, everywhere you go the hills start to green up and are nicer looking but during the summer and fall they look like dead brown scrub that could ignite any moment. Despite the brownness all over the hills you have palm trees, cool plants and even pine trees and it looks almost the same year round. This could be a drawback though for some who really love seasons and you won't notice a huge change in San Diego. I really miss the cool crisp air in October/Nov in Colorado and I love the springtime there too. Another thing mentioning is I never really had problems with allergies in my entire life but have been having terrible allergies this past year in CA. There is just so much pollen here it literally coats your windshield. San Diego does have perfect weather (did I mention 80 degrees this week but mostly 68 to 70's) and your skin will love the humidity. I do not miss the dry skin during the winter in Denver and I'm not looking forward to that at Thanksgiving.
People/Health
People are fit in both locations but you kind of notice them more in San Diego because there are so many people outside all the time/year round. I would say personal appearance/clothing is definitely more important in San Diego though both places are relatively casual with dress. San Diego is far more diverse as far as people with large Asian/Indian populations. Denver just doesn't compare to the diversity.
Traffic
Also can't not mention how horrible the traffic can be in CA. We mostly miss having to deal with this because we live so close to work and don't have to take the highway but rush hour can be ridiculous. Denver has it's traffic issues too but not nearly as bad as CA. Because there are canyons everywhere, it makes it difficult to easily get around town, you can't take many side roads. The road quality is terrible in CA with lots of potholes and debris and apparently no money to fix them. Denver has it's issues but usually patches them pretty good and repaves a lot. People in Denver can have serious road rage and in San Diego you can nearly sideswipe someone and not a single car horn will honk. It's the strangest thing, must be the surfer vibe or something.
Cost of Living
This is the MOST important factor for you to determine if you would be happy in San Diego in my opinion. We knew it would be expensive here but you never really fully know until you live here. Housing prices are just bonkers here in addition to higher gas, food, insurance.... Denver is hands down more affordable to live in. The 3,200 sq foot home we own in Denver and are currently renting to someone would go for 3 times the price in SD. We're close to the ocean but not right on the coast and the housing options are ridiculous. This will largely depend on what part of town you want to live in and if you rent. Lots of people rent here I think because they can't afford to buy anything for a really long time. I can understand why the bubble burst so badly here because real estate is so hugely overvalued. All they seem to build is more million dollar homes everywhere and you have to wonder how the heck there are so many people that can afford them. So if you can find something in your means that you can be happy with and you can still afford to take advantage of all the great things to do in CA then you might really like it or at least for a few years until you decide you've had your fill and want to settle somewhere more affordable. Overall we've been enjoying it here in CA but not sure I will want to spend the rest of my life here.Til then I say NO to SNOW!
I lived in Denver, back in 1972, and one of the bigger drawbacks, for me, was its isolation. It's inevitable, no matter where you live, you're going to get bored with it, from time to time, and so you think ahead to the weekend: Alright! Gotta get away!! Where to? Kansas City? Too far! Albuquerque? Too far! Cheyenne? Yup, that should cure my boredom!
I faced the same dilemma living in another isolated city for too long: Minneapolis.
If you're brave, and take the negative media with a grain of salt, you can live cheaply in the San Diego area by living in a luxury apartment building across the Border in Tijuana, in the Playas district, and walk to the beach every day! Or further south in a high rise in Rosarito Beach, just 16 miles from the Border.
I talked to one younger American who loves living in Tijuana, he has a hilltop 4-bedroom home he rents, overlooking the ocean, for $900 a month, in a guard-gated community! And if you don't feel safe enough there, for dirt cheap you can have your own private security guard.
One of the biggest misconceptions about San Diego is their year-round perfect climate. In winter, along the coast, it's perfect, as long as you have a nice winter coat! Same here in Las Vegas, a winter coat, plus a stocking cap, and mittens, and even long underwear, you'll need it, particularly in January!
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Same here in Las Vegas, a winter coat, plus a stocking cap, and mittens, and even long underwear, you'll need it, particularly in January!
