Has anyone relocated or thought of relocating due to COL/traffic/overall crowdedness? (Denver: foreclosure, purchase)
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.....<snip>... everything is just becoming more homogenized. Cities don't have as distinct personalities as they used to. ...<snip>.....
True. On average we Americans move about every 7 years, some more often. I knew military folks who moved every 2-3 years. The old joke at IBM was that IBM stood for "I've Been Moved." Mass media also lends itself to homogenizing the minds of tens of millions of people along similar lines .... it's like we all watched the same Seinfeld episodes and we all "get" the same things, respond the same way and we all drink the same light soy half caf double chocolate high fiber lattes. None of that is a reflection on any city these days, nothing is very "local" or even regional any more.
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These days it seems like any mid-size city that has any kind of mildly neat identity to it gets an obsession by Millennial's for cheap housing and a central Downtown. Right now it's Portland, Nashville, and Denver. What's next, who knows? Baltimore? Detroit? Minneapolis?
All I worry about is some of these obsessions seem like a fad an not actual real long term growth. I would say that it worked out well for Austin, but the verdict is still out for Denver.
At the end of the day it will be the cities with relatively good access to good STEM university education and good business political environment that will survive because that is where all the job growth will be because that is where companies will want to set up shop since most job growth is going to continue to be in tech. Un-replicable cities like Denver and Seattle will also probably make it bc it is hard to recreate the Rocky Mountains or Puget Sound. The rest of America will get left behind.
Ive been here for over 6 years now. When we first moved here, i think it was more fun. We were newly wed no kids and traffic wasnt as bad. We bought our first home for $350k, it has a nice view but I thought it was steep for what we were getting. Fast forward and we are planning on selling for $550k+. Our area in Arvada has exploded with people and traffic.
Now that we have a kid and hopefully a 2nd in the near future.....we are realizing skiing and enjoying all the good stuff about the area will be less likely. By the time we can take the family skiing together traffic will be even worse.
What we hate is the housing here. The COL isn't terrible compared to other places, its just crappy housing and tiny lots. I dont think it fits our life style any more at this point. I really hate all my neighbors being able to look at my backyard. I've looked all over the burbs and its all pretty common unless you spend $1mil+. I can't stand my neighbors thing to start a conversation while I'm playing with my son.
The Pros of CO: Weather, out door rec, big city amenities, good economy, other than housing the COL is fine.
Cons: Everybody wants to be here, home building is just plain bad, traffic will just get worse, droughts, a lot of the people suck. Im in Denver a lot and it has some of the rudest people I encounter traveling.
We are in the process of building a new home which will solve some of our issues, but we are already $90k ahead and I could buy the same home practically on 5 acres with a boat and plenty of cash to spare in Michigan.
I'm glad I moved here, but I think we will be gone in 3-5 years.
True. On average we Americans move about every 7 years, some more often. I knew military folks who moved every 2-3 years. The old joke at IBM was that IBM stood for "I've Been Moved." Mass media also lends itself to homogenizing the minds of tens of millions of people along similar lines .... it's like we all watched the same Seinfeld episodes and we all "get" the same things, respond the same way and we all drink the same light soy half caf double chocolate high fiber lattes. None of that is a reflection on any city these days, nothing is very "local" or even regional any more.
Local and regional I think is becoming more and more exclusive to small towns, rather than cities. The problem with that is it just leads to more tourism to get the "local vibe" while you're on vacation, more marketing around that, and then even those places lose their "personalities".
If you think Denver is bad take a look at Seattle and Portland and get back to me. I've driven Denver's so-called dreadful rush hour downtown and it is not great. However, Seattle and Portland's are so much worse. As far as crowding, the Puget Sound was never meant to be a metro area of 4+ million like it is now. There are only two major freeways running through the metro area which is locked between huge bodies of waters and towering mountains that cannot easily be developed. As well, the freeways are small (at most 8 lanes, but many no more than 6 lanes) and even gridlocked on weekends. At least Denver has room to expand and can handle being a large city and does't have a nutty city and state government whose best solution is tell everyone to ride a bike , take a high speed rail system that won't be upgraded until 2030 and toll lanes (like $10 a pop at high times) when all else fails.
I guess Denver seems like a breath of fresh air to both Seattle and Portland which is why I left the Pacific Northwest and now consider myself a Cascadian refugee. It breaks my heart what happen to my beloved Cascades and despite the insanity people are moving in hordes and the prices are skyrocketing still. The wages though are certainly not skyrocketing.
If you think the traffic and cost of living is bad in Denver, just know it is a breath of fresh air compared to Seattle or Portland. I was living the last month in Charlotte which now is almost (if not equally) as expensive to Denver in living in equally desirable neighborhood and the traffic there is getting worse as well. It seems like half of New York and New Jersey is moving to Charlotte. I almost never meet a native North Carolinan in Charlotte.
I think about moving almost every day. I don't want to leave Colorado but I'm over Denver. It's become, in only the last 6 years or so, just another gridlocked, overbuilt, generic city. Sure there are still a few cool, historic places but now even Larimer Square is threatened by massive development/destruction. Even my old neighborhood of RINO is now one giant construction zone/hipster-ville. I loved it when I lived there but now I don't even want to go near it. I'm ready to move to the mountains. My only problem is deciding whether to move to Evergreen now so I can still commute to work or wait until I retire and move somewhere like Breckenridge. If I could telecommute I'd be gone tomorrow.
The only plus is that my house has doubled in the last 6 years but it would be worth a $100,000 drop in price if all of the people who've moved here in the last 5 years would move away.
I think about moving almost every day. I don't want to leave Colorado but I'm over Denver. It's become, in only the last 6 years or so, just another gridlocked, overbuilt, generic city. Sure there are still a few cool, historic places but now even Larimer Square is threatened by massive development/destruction. Even my old neighborhood of RINO is now one giant construction zone/hipster-ville. I loved it when I lived there but now I don't even want to go near it. I'm ready to move to the mountains. My only problem is deciding whether to move to Evergreen now so I can still commute to work or wait until I retire and move somewhere like Breckenridge. If I could telecommute I'd be gone tomorrow.
The only plus is that my house has doubled in the last 6 years but it would be worth a $100,000 drop in price if all of the people who've moved here in the last 5 years would move away.
I'm basically on the same page as you, but moved for the main reason of missing the affordable real estate boat in the city. We could afford something like Aurora or other burbs, but commuting and living in urban sprawl is not something I wanted to do. That's good you secured a nice property though. I would only move back if me or my wife were able to obtain good jobs in Summit Co or something like you mentioned. Kind of hard to do.
I'm basically on the same page as you, but moved for the main reason of missing the affordable real estate boat in the city. We could afford something like Aurora or other burbs, but commuting and living in urban sprawl is not something I wanted to do. That's good you secured a nice property though. I would only move back if me or my wife were able to obtain good jobs in Summit Co or something like you mentioned. Kind of hard to do.
I know what you mean. That's always been the hard part of living in the mountains. There aren't a lot of good jobs. If you can't telecommute then you almost have to wait until you can pay cash (or close to it) for a house there. Evergreen / Conifer / Bailey are good options but then you still have to deal with the nightmare that is Denver traffic until you retire at least.
I was living in Denver and got a job offer in Kansas City, Missouri about 3 years ago. I did not knowing what to expect. The city turned out to be pretty cool. It was liberal, had good food, had meditation centers, was much cheaper, driving was not stressful, and I made more money. Now I am married and have a kid and purchased my first home. However, hiking or skiing is not something I was ever into.
I would evaluate what is really important to you and if you can get that somewhere else. For me I know I am happy as long as I am close to the city center. Whenever I have lived in suburbs I hate it. I would also look at where your work could take you, as having money can make a place much more enjoyable.
If being in the mountains is important there are plenty of smaller town options.
If being in a large metro area is important there are over 30 us metros with more than 2 million. as you can see here.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87
Ive been here for over 6 years now. .... We bought our first home for $350k, it has a nice view but I thought it was steep for what we were getting. Fast forward and we are planning on selling for $550k+. ...
We are in the process of building a new home which will solve some of our issues, but we are already $90k ahead and I could buy the same home practically on 5 acres with a boat and plenty of cash to spare in Michigan.
I'm glad I moved here, but I think we will be gone in 3-5 years.
As with other popular areas to live... (with J-O-B-S)
Take the money and run. (while employed, or cashing in higher RE equities... it does not make sense to stay once you have no income (and now must pay higher property taxes)
If you plan to stay (retirement or long term), grab some local investment property during downturns to keep pace with housing inflation.
Since Denver / Seattle / Austin / SLC / Portland were all Californicated WITHOUT the benefit of Prop 13, Millions of seniors and low wage earners have been displaced from home ownership, and now rents.
Having worked 40 yrs for a CA based employer.. the SMART CA transplants (who thought of returning to CA for retirement) retained their properties in CA and thus retired back to CA with low taxes and paid-off homes. (Company at one time had (7) Colorado based offices / factories with nearly 20k employment in CO, now under 2,000).
The rest of the "west" has been displaced, or found ways to cover their new 'Property Tax escalations based on Califorication (outflow of housing equity that forces the locals who helped make the state great... now must leave the state).
CO (Californicated) property taxes chased us off our ranch in the 1970's
Once I fled the state, I survived for about 10 yrs, but since then, my Californicated property taxes have gone from <$3 / day to now $44/ day (same property, just more worn out.)
As with most people (Colorado or elsewhere) $15k in property taxes becomes a challenge to your 'retiree' cash flows. To sell and replace is of no savings. You need to sell and ESCAPE. (Harder to swallow when you have built a farm (Soils, orchards, buildings, conservation, ponds, fences, roads.)
Most of my CO neighbors fled to WY and ID.
~30% of my CA co-workers returned to their safety net of CA with VERY low Prop 13 taxes (a benefit that can follow you to other houses (within CA!)).
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 09-03-2018 at 01:38 AM..
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I moved to KC MO
