Has anyone relocated or thought of relocating due to COL/traffic/overall crowdedness? (Denver: income, quality of life)

[daprara]

face it; most people dont cant live in Denver because they cant afford it. Not a traffic issue. The city is land locked and rents will continue to increase.

[N610DL]

Originally Posted by daprara

face it; most people dont cant live in Denver because they cant afford it. Not a traffic issue. The city is land locked and rents will continue to increase.

Partially. They also leave because they move to another city that potentially cheaper and/or has better wages.

[sammy87]

Some of the new homes they are building in Arvada and Superior blow my mind.....4 stories tall, 20' wide, 0 lot, starting at the mid $500's.....and they are selling like crazy. I dont get it, but obviously the builders and cities see a long term demand for growth in the area and the market can justify the pricing. I dont know how a young couple that want to live in a nice area can buy a home for $500k in their mid 20's.

[Chloe333]

Originally Posted by sammy87

Some of the new homes they are building in Arvada and Superior blow my mind.....4 stories tall, 20' wide, 0 lot, starting at the mid $500's.....and they are selling like crazy. I dont get it, but obviously the builders and cities see a long term demand for growth in the area and the market can justify the pricing. I dont know how a young couple that want to live in a nice area can buy a home for $500k in their mid 20's.

Plus you throw in the lack of trees-flora, intense sunlight, and exposed brown, dry terrain of some of those 'burbs and it can be difficult to adapt to if one is not used to that environment. I experienced what you experience with not liking how communal the yards can be akin to living in a fish bowl with neighbors from all directions seeing right into your yard and patio. (Didn't you write a post on here about not liking the lack of privacy in your backyard and maybe going back to MI someday? ) It was all very open, exposed, and communal-like and many of the homes can lack quality for what you are paying. I'm used to having a home nestled back on a larger lot in the vegetation and trees that allow for a sense of space, seclusion, and privacy from neighbors and missed having that when I was there with the tiny lots.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by sammy87

.... I dont know how a young couple that want to live in a nice area can buy a home for $500k in their mid 20's.

That's what I was thinking back in 2005 when we went looking at homes in the DC area and 20-somethings were buying $800k McMansions 40 miles west of DC in western Loudoun County. I couldn't figure it out either and just stood there awestruck, feeling left out and playing pocket pool.

We left the DC area in 2005 for Colorado Springs where our $500k home would've been $1M back in the DC area. BTW: When the housing bubble burst I figured out what had been going on...Liar Loans, NINJA loans, outright fraud and grotesquely bad lending standards. That's how the 20-somethings were buying those cribs. Guess what, the lending industry is as bad now as it was then .... per this report from the Brookings Institution.

[SkyDog77]

A personal anecdote to add to this thread regarding the crowds in the mountains......I just got home from a three day backpacking trip that was about a 3 hour drive from Denver. I saw three other people over the course of three days.

[mirage1287]

Having lived in significantly larger cities/metros before, I think the Denver area is far from "overcrowded." In fact, sometimes I wander around downtown on a Friday after work and wonder where all the people are.

I actually think that while traffic/COL is becoming more difficult, it's still a lot better when compared to places like LA, SF, Seattle, etc.

For those complaining about how Denver "used to be" years ago, think about things this way - it's not entirely a bad thing that Denver is booming. Isn't that a sign of a growing city? Growth is good for the state/local economy, it's good to attract more companies to the area and it's good for local job prospects. If Denver was still the same way it "used to be" 10 years ago, that would be a terrible sign of a stagnant city/economy.

If you're looking for a smaller, more low key city than there are plenty of options throughout CO or other parts of the state. But if you like having more job options or your property value increase, then traffic/crowdedness are two symptoms that come along with that type of city growth.

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

That's what I was thinking back in 2005 when we went looking at homes in the DC area and 20-somethings were buying $800k McMansions 40 miles west of DC in western Loudoun County. I couldn't figure it out either and just stood there awestruck, feeling left out and playing pocket pool.

We left the DC area in 2005 for Colorado Springs where our $500k home would've been $1M back in the DC area. BTW: When the housing bubble burst I figured out what had been going on...Liar Loans, NINJA loans, outright fraud and grotesquely bad lending standards. That's how the 20-somethings were buying those cribs. Guess what, the lending industry is as bad now as it was then .... per this report from the Brookings Institution.

Have you applied for a loan recently? Its nothing like it was back then. Remember the joke that was appraising back then? Now you actually are told by realtors to keep a little bit in contingency in case there is an appraisal gap. Not saying the Brookings report doesn't point out some potential risks, but its not because of bad underwriting or unqualified kids buying up places. Applying for even a refi with tons of equity and no cash out is a serious burden and you get all kinds of ridiculous questions. The underwriter wanted a letter to explain one thing after another. I had to write a letter explaining that the $120 I spent on a single charge was for a "special occasion dinner" so it wouldn't be implied my dining costs for the month would be over $1000.

And having gone to some of the new developments to look around there aren't a whole lot of "kids" shopping. Most appear to be at least 30 to me with quite a few seniors looking around too.

[Marston]

Originally Posted by mirage1287

Having lived in significantly larger cities/metros before, I think the Denver area is far from "overcrowded." In fact, sometimes I wander around downtown on a Friday after work and wonder where all the people are.

I actually think that while traffic/COL is becoming more difficult, it's still a lot better when compared to places like LA, SF, Seattle, etc.

For those complaining about how Denver "used to be" years ago, think about things this way - it's not entirely a bad thing that Denver is booming. Isn't that a sign of a growing city? Growth is good for the state/local economy, it's good to attract more companies to the area and it's good for local job prospects. If Denver was still the same way it "used to be" 10 years ago, that would be a terrible sign of a stagnant city/economy.

If you're looking for a smaller, more low key city than there are plenty of options throughout CO or other parts of the state. But if you like having more job options or your property value increase, then traffic/crowdedness are two symptoms that come along with that type of city growth.

Very well said. I think this idea flies over the head of the NIMBY crowd sometimes. A stagnant community is the perfect recipe for private sector divestiture. Why would business interests hedge capital on a communities that are determined to stifle growth? Putting a damper on growth is a huge luxury since the economy is not always in a good cycle, and the unintended consequence of this during downturns is a jump in urban blight and a competitive disadvantage in retaining local jobs.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

A personal anecdote to add to this thread regarding the crowds in the mountains......I just got home from a three day backpacking trip that was about a 3 hour drive from Denver. I saw three other people over the course of three days.

3-4 hours is a bit of a drive from Denver though. And there's no resort nearby, it's just pure outdoor enthusiasts there. The Sangres are the best hiking and mountain shapes in the state though IMO. If you really want to drop off the face of the earth, go to the other side of the valley in the Saguache mountains.

Originally Posted by mirage1287

Having lived in significantly larger cities/metros before, I think the Denver area is far from "overcrowded." In fact, sometimes I wander around downtown on a Friday after work and wonder where all the people are.

I actually think that while traffic/COL is becoming more difficult, it's still a lot better when compared to places like LA, SF, Seattle, etc.

For those complaining about how Denver "used to be" years ago, think about things this way - it's not entirely a bad thing that Denver is booming. Isn't that a sign of a growing city? Growth is good for the state/local economy, it's good to attract more companies to the area and it's good for local job prospects. If Denver was still the same way it "used to be" 10 years ago, that would be a terrible sign of a stagnant city/economy.

If you're looking for a smaller, more low key city than there are plenty of options throughout CO or other parts of the state. But if you like having more job options or your property value increase, then traffic/crowdedness are two symptoms that come along with that type of city growth.

It depends. As a city gets bigger, there's more money floating around. Where that money goes depends on whether the growth is beneficial to a existing resident. Denver's done a better job adding amenities than CO Springs has. If you go down there, you can see most of the money is flowing into big single family homes, not something that benefits other residents. It is getting much more congested and pricey though. IMO the city hasn't really improved despite growing.

Also you are assuming people are in a career where they can hop upward quickly and they are planning to downsize or move when they retire (which most people don't actually end up doing).