Liquor stores, aprés le deluge (Denver: quiet, color, numbers)

[LHS79]

Originally Posted by jweb29

i wonder what will take their place? hopefully something nice

It sure won't be a Starbux since most shopping centers have one (or maybe 3) already (!).

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by tanbark813

We've already shown that these 2 statements are false.

Well, actually, no, but if you want to cling to the idea that Denver is the drunk's paradise, with liquor stores one beer apart as far as the eye can see, I'll just concede the point. And, of course, liquor stores need Google, a map and a guide dog to find in California.

Original point was about the change in liquor laws, and since we've pretty much agreed that the laws are to protect the sensibilities of the diminishing bluenose population and the liquor store's special class, there's not much to add. I don't agree with any retailing laws or regs that protect one type of merchant against the better interests of consumers.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by Timmyy

I think right now it is more of a convenience of not having to go to two places when shopping.

Works for me. As someone who (admitted) buying beer in grocery stores for several months before I noticed the 3.2 limitation (since "oh, everyone just knows that" is the official method of informing newcomers and visitors), I'm happy to pick up a six of something with my beans and rice. That it's currently $1-2 cheaper is a bonus; we'll see what happens with that.

I don't really care that wine and liquor aren't available, since I stopped drinking wine a while ago and liquor prices in grocery stores are not usually that good, and tend to be only for bottom-shelf and mid-grade booze anyway.

It is fairly absurd that you can't buy wine for your dinner there, though. It will be interesting to see whether this change is progressive, now that the wall has been breached and as most here seem to assume, or whether the relatively small concession of 5% beer will serve to block further changes. It's all a civic case of yaws.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by Quietude

It is fairly absurd that you can't buy wine for your dinner there, though.

Just remember. Every state has weird and anti-consumer laws when it comes to alcohol.
For example, the age 21 limit. I say: "old enough to die, old enough to drink".

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

Just remember. Every state has weird and anti-consumer laws when it comes to alcohol.
For example, the age 21 limit. I say: "old enough to die, old enough to drink".

And for states with an 18 age, it's "old enough to do both and probably will."

And, not to beat a dead horse into glue, but name any other "weird law" California has. Their liquor laws have been non-restrictive and permissive for many decades, without any of the problems other states seem to think they have to guard against. (That's just an example with a sufficient population to matter, not a rah-rah-CA thing. I don't take sides on the issue.)

I don't object to a reasonable control of active substances - keeping liquor stores and dispensaries away from schools, limiting onsale hours, even moderate restrictions on density in any given area. 21 seems to have become the "right" age to limit access. But the endless protection of the merchants in the vague guise of public service/health/good can go. Pricing limits, sales restrictions, extreme licensing requirements... all anti-consumer perks and nothing else.

[tanbark813]

Originally Posted by Quietude

Well, actually, no, but if you want to cling to the idea that Denver is the drunk's paradise, with liquor stores one beer apart as far as the eye can see, I'll just concede the point. And, of course, liquor stores need Google, a map and a guide dog to find in California.

Now you're just being an idiot and exaggerating what I said.

These were your 2 statements:

Originally Posted by Quietude

Anyone who can say there aren't liquor stores on at least the density scale here simply hasn't driven around California suburbia in the last few decades.

I have said that there aren't liquor stores on the same density scale and I have driven around CA suburbia countless times in the last few decades. So this is false.

Originally Posted by Quietude

Anyone who thinks liquor stores are notably dense here must have come from Utah.

I think liquor stores are dense here and I have not come from Utah. So this is also false.


Whether or not it's actually denser here has yet to be proven but myself and at least one other person on this thread thinks that's the case. And people I've spoken with IRL agree.

[Quietude]

I won't continue the argument. I've lived three places with very different liquor laws and so forth, and I can close my eyes and visualize a hundred CA streets with three liquor stores in sight every mile or so. If you want to say CA doesn't have that many liquor stores despite a cite of the numbers, I'll leave you to it. I just can't figure out why it matters to you, other than on some kind of leather-balls old west 'tude. You win, pod'nuh... 'kay?

[tanbark813]

Originally Posted by Quietude

I won't continue the argument. I've lived three places with very different liquor laws and so forth, and I can close my eyes and visualize a hundred CA streets with three liquor stores in sight every mile or so. If you want to say CA doesn't have that many liquor stores despite a cite of the numbers, I'll leave you to it. I just can't figure out why it matters to you, other than on some kind of leather-balls old west 'tude. You win, pod'nuh... 'kay?

Because you keep twisting my words and can't stand that people disagree with you. Or you're too stupid to understand my point.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by tanbark813

Because you keep twisting my words and can't stand that people disagree with you. Or you're too stupid to understand my point.

I haven't twisted anything. Consider this: there's a difference between density and clustering. California has very loose location laws and thus the stores might be slightly less dense in any one location than here, while CO's draconian control means that stores cluster away from schools, other kinds of stores, etc. Pockets of higher density do not overcome lower community density.

So I'll repeat: in 2014, California had 13,800 stores that sold liquor, or one for every 2700 residents. Colorado had 1200 stores, or one for every 4100 residents. If you care to keep making loopy arguments that somehow that means Colorado has a higher density of liquor stores, feel free. Nothing twisted there except what you're choosing to, for absolutely incomprehensible reasons.

[tanbark813]

Originally Posted by Quietude

I haven't twisted anything.

I understand now, dementia has set in for you. Hang in there, buddy.