Half Of Detroit Can't Pay Water Bill. UN To The Rescue? (to rent, HOA fees)

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Get a grip and take a breather on the fainting couch. Nowhere have I railed against capitalism, and you can't even show where I have - so why do you say it?
This whole U.N. crap is dumb, but you chose to inject into the conversation the new hypothetical "given" (in your mind) of "isn't right-wing societal and economic control always better" which I answered - but not to your liking. So now I "hate capitalism". A response like this sounds much like a tantrum.

Why don't you just explain how a right-wing mayor would have been better for Detroit, and what he would specifically have done differently for the good of all the city's residents.
How would he/she have solved unemployment? Loss of manufacturing - what about that? This illustrates what I have been saying - conservatives complain loudly but can only leave solutions to someone else.
You also should not throw out new off-the-cuff terms like "government-sponsored capitalism" which most people never heard of. Did Faux News use such a term? How does government "sponsor" capitalism?

Allow me to share my opinion.....

Pretty sure the access to free water is not being denied (there are free wells everywhere in this state), its the infrastructure and carrier cost that needs to be paid. The system does not work if no one pays for it. Just because there is not water to the tap does not mean its a humanitarian crisis on the level of Somalia. Yes, you might have to *gasp* walk to get it in a container! Oh the humanity. Short of the disabled, if so many folks don't have jobs, what prevents them from going to get it? In fact, tap water is a "new" idea in the realm of human history. In fact, how many people went to get it 100 years ago? My wife and I still go to the spring water wells to fill up and drink that instead of the tap (tastes better than the chlorinated stuff).

"Corporate well-fare" is one of my favorite words thrown around. A tax is money the government takes from a transaction. Allowing a corporation to KEEP some of the money from that transaction means that the government is not taking as much. I fail to see how that is welfare.

Trickle down economics actually does work....its not perfect but it does work better than any liberal monetary policy (war on poverty, trickle up poverty). Let me give an example: Detroit in the 80's and 90's had to fill a number of the high rises downtown with retirees in order to keep some of the buildings useful. Others were flat out abandoned (david whitney building). Dan Gilbert decided to move his company (Quicken Loans and related companies) downtown. He in turn created demand in the central buisness district for housing and office occupancy. He used his money (private evil rich guy) to buy buildings(20+ properties) in the mostly abandoned CBD to house his companies (very profitable). Now the CBD is thriving. This is something the city government failed to do over the 30 years I have been alive. If I am missing something than I would love to hear it. In fact, if you want to see how much a government can hinder development please wiki "the jewelers building". When governments try to play favorites or "control" what goes on, you end up with blight and economic stagnation. For another example google Obamas $1 Trillion "shovel ready jobs" that was absolutely needed. The economy is actually worse off. There is no government agency that does not waste money. In fact, a lot of times its not their fault (Agencies have to spend a certain amount to get a certain amount next year).

Something else that you seem to misunderstand is what the Republican jobs plan is....its to let the private sector do what it does best and create the jobs. Should it do it unchecked, no. Most Republicans don't believe that it should. Should there be taxes and regulations? Of course. But the stifling economic air that is around is absurd. The reason the Republicans don't have a job plan is because there isn't one. Governments don't create jobs. Don't believe me? Ask the Fords, William Durant, Dodge brothers, Dan Gilbert, Illitch holdings... I could go on.

Income and equality gap? Thats a thing? This country provides equal opportunity, not equal outcome. Some will try and fail, some will be successful, but to blame the folks that are successful when others aren't is a twisted world view. To say that someone "owes" because he/she is successful is also very scary. A flat tax would fix this (Although I don't feel like arguing the merits right now...lol).

Fair? Whats fair? There is no definition to this in economics, just opinions. I am not rich but don't think that things are "unfair". I just try harder. Will I be successful? I sure hope so. Will I fail? Maybe, thats not going to stop me from trying.

Fox news, MSNBC, CNN etc are all different sides of the same coin. Remember, Television is sensationalism and its main goal is to sell things. Arguing what sales pitch is better (FOX, MSNBC) is asinine. TV is the devil and I don't own one.

Sorry about spelling, punctuation, etc., my son was up last night and I am dragging today!

Hope this adds to the discussion as its my first post! Very much enjoying the forum!

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs

They can't! They don't have the money! Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?!

It's called living in the "let them eat cake", "it's all about me", Ayn Rand bubble.
For instance, when they themselves are healthy they hate the "leeches" who become ill and can't pay for medical care, but when it happens to them they moan about the assistance they are morally entitled to. I have seen this in action. They complain about "government handouts" to others but love it for themselves.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith.
They found this "justification" in Ayn Rand whose philosophies have been openly and publicly embraced by the right wingers in Congress, the RW media, and conservatives across the country. The "self-sufficient" Rand herself needed welfare in later life - but hey "now it's me"!
This is why they complain about the poor but gladly accept welfare in the form of subsidies and tax breaks for themselves. In the RW mind, the wealthy and prosperous (who also at a given moment happen to be their peers and allies) are more "deserving" of this taxpayer support. Even though trickle-up is more beneficial to the economy, RW media gurus rail against the poor, but remain mum on the more expensive welfare doled out to the rich.
So for the Detroit impoverished it's "it ain't me - let 'em rot".
And besides, the shutoff notices may just be a scare tactic, sort of like motivating people to pay back taxes or traffic tickets and getting some money into city coffers.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by juppiter

U.S.A.! All the way! Pay your bill with money you don't have and you can have basic human necessities like water! We're number 1!

They can have all the water they can carry.....free.

What is the problem????

[Serious Conversation]

If you can't pay your bill, your service gets cut off. Why is this such an alien concept?

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

If you can't pay your bill, your service gets cut off. Why is this such an alien concept?

Then what happens to the 350,000 people with no access to water?

[flyonpa]

They get in line behind the National Guard tanker, and fill there Jugs.

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by flyonpa

They get in line behind the National Guard tanker, and fill there Jugs.

But there are no National Guard tankers in Detroit. No one has sent any form of assistance at all. Everyone is just standing back and hoping someone else will address the elephant in the room. It's a mix of "not my problem," as detwahDJ said, and of denialism stemming from disbelief that people could suffer and be poor in the most powerful nation on earth (so powerful that it can't even solve its own problems!).

[flyonpa]

When the 50% who are paying the water bill stop, because they can't afford it anymore for paying for the 50% who don't Detroit water/sewer will shut down.

Because they don't have the money to run the plants any more. The State of MI will bring in the national guard to distribute water. Won't ever happen, The State or some court would step in and require the city and/or state to run the plants.

[OuttaTheLouBurbs]

Originally Posted by flyonpa

When the 50% who are paying the water bill stop, because they can't afford it anymore for paying for the 50% who don't Detroit water/sewer will shut down.

Because they don't have the money to run the plants any more. The State of MI will bring in the national guard to distribute water. Won't ever happen, The State or some court would step in and require the city and/or state to run the plants.

Except when they try to get the state to chalk up money to run the plants and pay the utility workers, they'll all be like "not my problem." Suburbanites of the Detroit area will continue to act as if they have nothing to do with the city, despite the fact that their communities exist solely because of the city and the fact that they take advantage of the city's heritage, identity, infrastructure, amenities, and reputation to draw businesses and residents to their areas.

For example, do you ever hear someone say they're from the Troy, Michigan area? Or the Southfield Metro area? No! They're from the Detroit area! And yet most of the residents there refuse to associate with the city in any way outside of a Tigers or Lions game, regardless of the fact that Detroit is the economic center of their metro, has always been the economic center, and always will be! The suburbs owe their existence to Detroit, and yet they will not pay a single penny to help resuscitate the city. But, of course, if the city lifts itself up by its own bootstraps someday, the suburbanites would be more than happy to reap the benefits anyway.

It's like detwahDJ said-"It ain't me, let 'em rot." Except the irony is, it is "me"! News flash-just because you aren't in Detroit's boundaries doesn't mean you aren't part of the city and don't play a role in its fate!

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs

Then what happens to the 350,000 people with no access to water?

They have all the water they want....

Who does not have water????